BMW E46 M3 Coupé Full Respray Query

[oceansize]

Reading through you seem to get the gist. Every step of the process determines the outcome. So go with your gut. Ultimately, make no mistake, it is the owner of the shop that matters which is why dealership body shops were mostly terrible. Absentee owners. If you've got good vibes and the shop is known to do good work you're probably ok. The owner of the shop I worked at was detailed oriented and the final QA for almost every single car.

[9kracing]

You should probably hit up Casa de Mesa - he did a full respray.

In a very cool color I might add.

I may be in the minority, but I would definitely pay more for that car that a Carbon Schwartz car.

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/main-forum/member-build-journals/145270-casa-de-mesa%E2%80%99s-m3-color-change-from-blue-to-blue

[Casa de Mesa]

Thanks 9kracing for pointing me here.

R60BBA DO IT!!! I've done exactly what you're looking to do, except I did a color / colour change. I'm going to assume that you care about taking the car back to a high standard of visual appeal, so my comments are geared towards getting the car as close to perfect as possible.

If you are going to do it, you really have to commit to doing it right. Personally, I don't think the effort and expense is worth it otherwise. A bad respray will be far more undesirable to you (and anyone else) than an aging factory paint.

That said, do whatever floats your boat and take my points below for what they are... an opinion. Disclaimer over, here are my thoughts, with certainly some self-aware bias built in.

• The most important thing you can do is find the right partner for the job - someone that understands your specific goals - and is willing to do the job in whatever manner is important to you. Take your time to carefully vet this shop. Read post #31 in my build journal as to why this is so important. The BMW Classic Programme recommendation sounds appealing. The guys I selected were fanatical about keeping their entire shop as clean. I think that speaks volumes about the end product you're going to get.
• Agree with your comment about using a paint system the painter is familiar with. That's much more important than the brand (so long as you actually recognize the brand of paint). My painter said, "I'll use Glasurit if you really want, but we much prefer to use our paint system." Have them take you through their paint system and you'll immediately know if it's truly a system or not.
• Invest a little more money in the number of layers of paint and clear coat, especially if you do color change (more on that later). Don't do the bare minimum. You want a little extra wiggle room (paint!) to buff things out in the future and for the cut and buff process immediately following the paint.
• Pay for a shop that will cut & buff the paint. This will 100% remove orange peel and other imperfections that are impossible to avoid in a manual (human) respray. Also, it will force the painter to get up close and personal with their paintwork and fix imperfections. People will contest this point... but my paint looks far better than a factory paint job. That said, prepare to pay handsomely for that level of quality and labor.
• If you are sticking with Carbon Schwartz, you can probably get away without taking the motor out. However, if the engine compartment is not in good shape (scratches anywhere in the engine bay), it will stand out in sharp contrast to a mint exterior every time you pop the hood. I also have a Carbon Schwartz car and the scratches stand out considerably on dark colored cars.
• I recommend putting in the effort and removing the motor. Removing the motor definitely complicates things, but becomes a fantastic opportunity to replace all of the sensors, electronic gizmos, and other odds and ends that tend to go bad (crankshaft position sensors, starter motors, idle air control valves, rubber coolant lines, etc.). Similar to the previous bullet, a greasy, grimy motor will stand out sharply against the mint exterior.
• Expect to break things when you take them apart - all the plastic bits. When it happens, expect to be surprised at how expensive some of this stuff has gotten. Expect to have a hard time finding Genuine BMW replacement parts.
• Are you doing the removal and reassembly (R&R) of the interior, etc? If you do the R&R yourself, it will dramatically decrease costs. But it will dramatically increase timelines and effort. I did the R&R myself, but that's my happy place - wrenching on cars.
• Expect to break the windshield when removing it. Plan on new glass. Most body shops will use a dedicated glass company to R&R the windscreens. Ask them who they use and make sure they say stuff like, "We have the best glass guy!". Then Google that shop. Offer to have your own shop do the glass if you don't like what you find out.

Color change thoughts

Color change on a classic M car will always, always decrease its value. Especially if its done without engine out/full stripping to bare body and respraying all areas.

I genuinely used to think the same thing before I resprayed mine. But... https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-m3-coupe-223/

If a color change is done right and to a very high standard of quality, I do not think it detracts from the value but can actually increase it. There is more of a market for "classic" cars that have been tastefully modded (I don't like the term, but think OEM+) using original or better parts (e.g., Karbonius). Look no further than all of the 911 RSR recreations out there in every single Skittles color ever made. But as I've indicated multiple times, you pay for quality. You will not get that investment back either, unless you do the R&R yourself. But your time is money.

All of this to say, I highly recommend thinking a little longer about doing a color change. I realize a color change mandates engine out, but if you're investing that much in the exterior bodywork anyway, you're reaching "might as well" territory in the engine bay.

I wish you the best of luck! For me, doing this was one of the best experiences of my life.

Let me know if you have specific / additional questions.

-Casa

[oceansize]

Engine out paint job is never about worth (or loss) because what you’re going to pay to have it done, when everything is added up, is going to nullify any gains, and create losses, in most cases. Throw in CSL conversion, seats, smg conversion (like that CSL), and other big ticket items and jeebus the money spent was huge. That isn’t to say it’s not possible to break even, but do not be impressed with that $96k dollar number because the owner who had the work done spent an enormous amount of money on the car. Likewise the buyer was smart enough to realize he can't duplicate the amount of work that went into it without also spending a fortune (unless DIY).

Engine out paint job, as casa knows, is about wanting to do it and having the resources to do it.

The exception to the above is of course the DIYer like many of us are. If you do all the R&R and engine removal and deliver a rolling shell then it can be done more economically. I think casa may have done a lot of the work himself.

Having worked in a quality shop and dealt with other shops, here it is, most body and paint shops are horrific. Simply horrific. I remember when casa did his, that owner of that body and paint shop was outstanding.

Final point. The money is made in body and paint by doing collision work and lots of it. Engine out resprays, and even general cosmetic resprays like OP's request, eat up a bay for a lengthy period of time. Shop owners don't want this and why many places won't even quote something to do with cosmetic/resto work.

[Casa de Mesa]

My point about increasing value is more about not decreasing the car's value, rather than breaking even / making money. There is a purest mindset that if you respray a car, it will decrease its value. From what I have seen with high quality jobs, that is just not true.

[oceansize]

My point about increasing value is more about not decreasing the car's value, rather than breaking even / making money. There is a purest mindset that if you respray a car, it will decrease its value. From what I have seen with high quality jobs, that is just not true.

I know what you meant. I think people not involved in paint and body or haven't accomplished what you did, have a misunderstanding on what it costs. I'm trying to inject some sense of how expensive it really is to pay someone to do the work. Its enormously expensive, particularly in 2026.

[Casa de Mesa]

Got it!

Yeah, it's not an inexpensive proposition.

[R60BBA]

Casa de Mesa thanks for sharing your thoughts - your car looks mint by the way!

9kracing thanks for looping him in.

I completely agree with your view about finding the right outfit to do the job.

You also raise a good point on finding out whether the bodyshop finishes out of the gun or whether they cut and polish the paint thereafter.

On the engine bay point - mine is in good condition and as I will be keeping the car Carbon Schwarz, in my case there is no need for an engine out job. The glass will be coming out and the doors will be coming off though.

Funnily enough, earlier today I met with the manager at the BMW bodyshop of the Classic Partner to discuss the job. He praised the car and seemed confident in understanding what I was looking to achieve. He had a good eye and spotted things I was aware of without me having to point them out to him. He has been at the bodyshop a long time and spoke of the RACP warranty work that they used to carry out on E46 M3s back in the day, I showed him my Vincebar and he was pretty impressed. He also spoke about an E30 that they recently had in for paint.

I asked him about their paint system and he confirmed that they use BMW's ColorSystem which he believes is Spies Hecker rebranded. He admitted that Glasurit is better paint, especially the lacquer due to the depth that it provides, but also that it is possible to achieve a good finish with the BMW ColorSystem.

He quoted me a figure (which was reasonable), but caveated by saying that he will need to price up the job properly and then come back to me with a more concrete quote. So let's see.

[Casa de Mesa]

Sounds like you're on the right track!

Since you're keeping the color as is, makes sense not pulling the motor in your car.

Hit me up if you end up with questions along the way. Happy to assist however I can.

[Bimma360]

Everything that has been said the last few posts on here is spot on. I don't have much to add except the following:

Speaking to people that have actually used the shop is important. I just went through this process a few months ago. Not a F/R glass out and doors off respray, but everything else imaginable removed and disassembled. I did all of the removal and disassemble/assembly myself. I gave them a car that was 98% there, so I removed all risk from the shop of braking anything. Ultimately, I got 97% of the end result I wanted, but it took a while to get there. The paint work was great. Where it fell apart was the cut and buff. They just rushed it and left a lot of imperfections behind. I ended up bringing the car back to them to finish it correctly. And even then they still couldn't get it 100%. They just weren't up to that level of work. Close enough, and totally capable of it, they just didn't do it. Nothing I can't take over the finish line myself, or have someone else do it, but still. All in they had the car for 3 months.

The kicker is, every time I was there, I don't think I saw more than 1 car that was there for collision work. The shop was full of old muscle cars all in for full resprays. The owner has also been in business for 40 years, had a small crew of almost entirely old timers. The youngest was a 30 year old that handled all the paint work and he's been with the owner since he was 17. On paper, THIS was the type of place I wanted working on my car. Good online reviews to boot, albeit not a ton. If someone told me what I know now, I would have taken my car elsewhere.

So if you can, try to at least get some example of their work. A lot can seem right, but in my limited experience it's not a guarantee unfortunately.

[R60BBA]

Everything that has been said the last few posts on here is spot on. I don't have much to add except the following:

Speaking to people that have actually used the shop is important. I just went through this process a few months ago. Not a F/R glass out and doors off respray, but everything else imaginable removed and disassembled. I did all of the removal and disassemble/assembly myself. I gave them a car that was 98% there, so I removed all risk from the shop of braking anything. Ultimately, I got 97% of the end result I wanted, but it took a while to get there. The paint work was great. Where it fell apart was the cut and buff. They just rushed it and left a lot of imperfections behind. I ended up bringing the car back to them to finish it correctly. And even then they still couldn't get it 100%. They just weren't up to that level of work. Close enough, and totally capable of it, they just didn't do it. Nothing I can't take over the finish line myself, or have someone else do it, but still. All in they had the car for 3 months.

The kicker is, every time I was there, I don't think I saw more than 1 car that was there for collision work. The shop was full of old muscle cars all in for full resprays. The owner has also been in business for 40 years, had a small crew of almost entirely old timers. The youngest was a 30 year old that handled all the paint work and he's been with the owner since he was 17. On paper, THIS was the type of place I wanted working on my car. Good online reviews to boot, albeit not a ton. If someone told me what I know now, I would have taken my car elsewhere.

So if you can, try to at least get some example of their work. A lot can seem right, but in my limited experience it's not a guarantee unfortunately.

Thanks for sharing your experience and I must admit that would annoy me too.

Bodyshops make their money from painting cars, as opposed to polishing them but that is still no excuse.

What I’ve learned from speaking to people who have had their cars painted is that like you, you can go to a well recommended bodyshop (who for example specialises in resto work over insurance work) and still have issues.

This is why I am leaning with using BMW, if there are any problems, I simply send it back until I’m happy with it.

And if any issues develop down the line (i.e. sinkage, rust reoccurring, lacquer peel etc.), one would think that they would honour a repair under the lifetime guarantee.

Whereas if I were to use an independent bodyshop and have issues later down the line it might be a harder conversation (even if they warranty the work). Then you have the potential problem where the independent you use goes out of business (I’ve seen this quite a few times here in the UK)…

[Bimma360]

Bodyshops make their money from painting cars, as opposed to polishing them but that is still no excuse.

For sure! If the shop can spray clear flawlessly, then great. But human beings make mistakes, and I am really talking about the follow through to correct those mistakes. If there is an area where the orange peel is beyond acceptable, a dozen or so "paint knubs" throughout the car, maybe a small run in the clear, then you gotta sand and polish. That's totally fine, just deliver a car that doesn't show it was ever there ya know?

BMW is probably a safe bet. But sending things back is no fun man. At least it wasn't for me. Its frustrating. And having the need to do it more than once, is infuriating. If I were to do this again, I'd try to find a place that the vast majority of time doesn't require that nor warranty work. I do realize that is a lot to ask for when it comes to body work. But they must exist.

[oceansize]

A dedicated paint restoration shop will do a better after paint buff than any dealer or independent. Why? Because that is what they do all day, every day. I would never, ever, send my car to a dealer run body shop. That's a sweeping generalization, but I mean it. In all my years I never saw a single one worth a darn. In the end, the independent I worked at (and a few other smaller ones) took all their work and essentially put them all out of business in our area. That is until the owner sold and retired. Then it fell apart. That is why I said its the owner that matters, nothing else.

[R60BBA]

For sure! If the shop can spray clear flawlessly, then great. But human beings make mistakes, and I am really talking about the follow through to correct those mistakes. If there is an area where the orange peel is beyond acceptable, a dozen or so "paint knubs" throughout the car, maybe a small run in the clear, then you gotta sand and polish. That's totally fine, just deliver a car that doesn't show it was ever there ya know?

BMW is probably a safe bet. But sending things back is no fun man. At least it wasn't for me. Its frustrating. And having the need to do it more than once, is infuriating. If I were to do this again, I'd try to find a place that the vast majority of time doesn't require that nor warranty work. I do realize that is a lot to ask for when it comes to body work. But they must exist.

I hear that man.

The same thing happened to a friend of mine with a CSL. He had a full respray done on his car at a high end bodyshop and had to take it back a few times to address some minor finishing related issues. He got there in the end but it was frustrating for him.

A dedicated paint restoration shop will do a better after paint buff than any dealer or independent. Why? Because that is what they do all day, every day. I would never, ever, send my car to a dealer run body shop. That's a sweeping generalization, but I mean it. In all my years I never saw a single one worth a darn. In the end, the independent I worked at (and a few other smaller ones) took all their work and essentially put them all out of business in our area. That is until the owner sold and retired. Then it fell apart. That is why I said it’s the owner that matters, nothing else.

I agree that in general a dedicated resto outfit is more likely to do a better job than a main dealer or an accident repair bodyshop but this isn’t always the case.

I know a guy who had his rear arches resprayed a few years back by a well respected bodyshop. Not long after the bubbling came back, however during this time the bodyshop folded. In the end the chap had to pay someone else to fix a job which hadn’t been done properly. So in effect ended up paying twice.

I also know of another guy who is currently in the process of taking an independent bodyshop to court after they butchered his car.

These things happen but had either owner had their car done by a main dealer (which offered lifetime guarantee), they most likely wouldn’t be their situation.

I’ve traditionally been in the camp of not using main dealers for automotive related work however on this occasion I think I might go for it. The lifetime guarantee is one thing, then there’s the fact that I know a painter who used to work there and vouched for them doing work properly. Plus when I met the bodyshop manager who has been there for years, he came across as a someone who ensures that things are done properly (which matched up with what the painter told me)…

[oceansize]

I hear that man.

The same thing happened to a friend of mine with a CSL. He had a full respray done on his car at a high end bodyshop and had to take it back a few times to address some minor finishing related issues. He got there in the end but it was frustrating for him.


I agree that in general a dedicated resto outfit is more likely to do a better job than a main dealer or an accident repair bodyshop but this isn’t always the case.

I know a guy who had his rear arches resprayed a few years back by a well respected bodyshop. Not long after the bubbling came back, however during this time the bodyshop folded. In the end the chap had to pay someone else to fix a job which hadn’t been done properly. So in effect ended up paying twice.

I also know of another guy who is currently in the process of taking an independent bodyshop to court after they butchered his car.

These things happen but had either owner had their car done by a main dealer (which offered lifetime guarantee), they most likely wouldn’t be their situation.

I’ve traditionally been in the camp of not using main dealers for automotive related work however on this occasion I think I might go for it. The lifetime guarantee is one thing, then there’s the fact that I know a painter who used to work there and vouched for them doing work properly. Plus when I met the bodyshop manager who has been there for years, he came across as a someone who ensures that things are done properly (which matched up with what the painter told me)…

You must vet any independent, for sure. Not all independents are good. Paint and body is the single worst industry in the car world by a longggggggg shot because there is art (or craftsmanship if you prefer) involved. Its not just mechanical a->b->c. If you trust the dealer guy, then I get it, have to go with your gut. When you know how the sausage is made (like I do), you understand the miracle it really is when a shop actually performs.