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Review: Cobra Nogaro seats (uniquely street friendly fixed back bucket seat)

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    Review: Cobra Nogaro seats (uniquely street friendly fixed back bucket seat)

    This is installed in my e46, but it really applies to all BMWs equally, so thought I'd post it here, as well.

    I am just going to start with pictures, because I know everyone is going to skip to that either way. Please read on, after, as there are a ton of very specific reason why I think this seat is THE best seat on the market for cars that see track and street use-- and quite different that other offerings currently on the market.

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    Pretty spectacular, in my opinion!

    Seats are a project I have been pondering doing on my car for over a decade. In that time, I’ve run a bunch of different seats in different cars (specifically Sparco Evo IIs, Recaro SPG XLs, and Recaro Pole Positions) and found them all to be unacceptable in a street driven car for a variety of reasons.

    I view my car as a tracked street car. Every modification I do to it is done with that priority set in mind. That means I am not willing to do anything that makes the car less safe on the street (which lots of track focused seats do), less practical, or too much of a pain to hop in to go grab milk. In the context of seats, I want to improve the car on track as much as possible, without making it worse on the street.

    I also do not want to do anything that degrades the quality of the car. One of my favorite things about the M3 is that it is a high quality, well made object, which uses premium materials.

    Safety
    My primary concern was not making the car less safe on the street. There are two areas where traditional aftermarket seats negatively impact street safety.
    1. The factory 3 point receiver has nowhere to go. This is well exemplified in this picture of the Recaro SPG XL mounted in my M3 wagon (since removed):

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    Using the factory 3 point receiver, you have to choose between pulling the belt over the top of the side of the seat (which creates a gap between you and the belt—unsafe) or feeding it through the hole—which causes it to jab into your side continuously and be orientated off the load path of the belt. A common solution to this is to run a back seat receiver in the front, but doing so comes at the expense of the factory belt pretensioner functionality, as well as the seat belt buckle sensor. Factory fixed back seats address this by coming either with low sides, like BMW did in the CSL/CRT, or with cutouts specifically designed for the seat belt receiver, like Porsche does with their factory buckets or BMW does in their GTS cars.

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    CSL seats

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    CRT seats

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    Porsche’s every modern car CF bucket

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    M4 GTS factory seats


    If you look at the Nogaros, you will see Cobra went the same route as BMW did with the CSL—the sides are low enough in the seat belt receiver area to allow the belt to pass over the seat, unobstructed. I don’t know of any other fixed back seats on the market that play nicely with the factory 3 point receiver.

    2. Many aftermarket fixed back seats have little to no head padding. This was true of the Recaro in my wagon above, and the Evo II I ran in my track car. For race/track use, where you are wearing a helmet, this is fine. For street use, if you get into a crash where you hit your head on the head rest (which is pretty much any front or rear end crash), it is a serious safety issue. Again, if you look at the pictures above, you’ll see that factory fixed back bucket seats always have head padding. On aftermarket seats, this is pretty unusual!

    3. The Cobra Nogaro is the ONLY fixed back seat on the market that is approved (by Schroth) to be used with a Quickfit harness. This is a huge improvement in on track safety over the factory 3 point in all crashes, and allows for the use of a Hans device (enabling further safety).

    4. For reasons beyond my comprehension, many fixed back bucket seats place the harness pass through holes too low to safely use, for an average sized person. It's like they're designed as a styling feature rather than an actual safety feature. The Nogaro does not suffer that-- no spine compression from too low harness holes here!

    Comfort

    1. The Nogaro has considerably more padding than any other non factory bucket seat that I have experienced (I’m starting to sense a trend here). This makes it more comfortable to sit in for an extended period of time. That said I had Cobra make me an extra thin bum cushion (that was there terminology for it on the invoice) specifically for track use—allowing me to sit lower, and have the side bolstering be higher relative to my body.
    2. The lower sides (which, again, I have only seen on factory fixed back seats besides these) mean ingress and egress are considerably easier. You do not need to have a strategy for getting into and out of the car—you just sit in it, and get out when you are done. When I had the SPG XL in the M3 wagon, my wife refused to drive the car because of the entry exit procedure. She prefers the Nogaro to the stock seats
    3. Adjustable lumbar-- In a fixed back bucket seat, installed by Cobra, at the factory. Different people need different amounts of lumbar support, and lumbar support is hugely important to how comfortable and supportive a seat is.

    Customization

    1. Starting with the obvious, mine were done in Imola leather with Imola thread. This was done by Cobra, at the Cobra factory, on their standard production line—meaning it is 100% factory quality/fitment. Cobra has a number of leather options, and is adding more, but, based on samples they sent me at the time, none were the 100% match to Imola I was looking for. I ended up getting samples from ~15 different leather suppliers before I found one I was happy with (thanks to a recommendation from Braymond141): Relicate. https://relicate.com/ . My experience with other seats makers has always been that they are not willing to work with you at all—any customization has to be done after the sale, by a 3rd party shop—more expensive and likely not as good as factory.
    2. Thread spacing. I actually didn’t even think of this on my own—it was Cobra’s idea. They had me take a picture of a tape measure held up against the stock stitching, and then matched it when sewing the seats—meaning the stitching on my seats has the same spacing as the stitching on the door cards/stock seats. A small detail, but also completely awesome, in my opinion!
    3. Factory BMW e46 seat heater pads are installed in my seats (also installed by Cobra)! This means they are plug and play with the factory seat wiring harness, and work with the factory seat heater controls in the center stack. Great for brisk spring/fall track days, first thing in the morning, with mandatory windows down!
    4. Extra, thin bum cushion. I had Cobra make me an extra bum cushion (their terminology) which is just a piece of neoprene—wrapped in Imola red leather, with BMW seat heater pads. This allows me to sit lower and have more side support while on track, similar to a more track focused bucket seat.
    5. Seat occupancy sensor. This is something I didn’t choose to do, as the BMW occupancy sensor tends to be unreliable, but something they were willing to do (so I thought I should mention if others wanted it)—they were more than happy to install this, at the factory, as well. I opted to not get it, and coded the errors. The downside to my approach is that the passenger airbags will go off in a crash, whether there’s a passenger in the seat or not—making a crash more expensive.
    6. Adjustable lumbar support. As mentioned above (in the comfort section), I have adjustable lumbar support in my seats. This can be adjusted on the fly by a small hand pump/release valve that I have tucked inside the leather on the tunnel side.
    7. The shells are offered in GRP (22 lbs seats) or CF (12 lbs per seat). I opted for GRP because of the price difference… which I might regret one day (I could have had an additional 20 lbs of weight saving with no detriment to functionality/comfort).

    Mounting

    1. Brey Krause has an upcoming line of Nogaro specific mounts for the e46 (as well as 911s, Caymans, e9Xs, F8Xs/F3Xs, and some other cars), which attach to the factory BMW sliders. Having car specific, seat specific mounts gets you as close to a factory optimized seat setup as you’re going to get. My car was the development car for the e46 mounts, so the version pictured may not be the final production part—but it should be close. I choose to run a power slider on the driver side, for precise adjustment and because it lets you get the seat lower, and a manual slider on the passenger side, for faster back seat access.
    2. The Brey Krause side mounts use the factory sliders. Unlike aftermarket sliders, the factory sliders are designed to have seat belts mounted above them—which means the seat belts stay properly located to your body, regardless of seat position (including sub straps, using the Brey Krause sub strap mounts for stock sliders—R-9228 and R-9229). For my car, I went with the factory e46 sedan/wagon sliders, as they add an outboard lap belt mount point (unlike the coupe’s sliders). While this wasn’t necessary, as the Brey Krause lap belt kit (R-9225) can add a lap belt mount point to the coupe sliders, I like factory parts.
    3. Using the factory sliders also means the factory 3 point belt receiver on the slider is retained. This means the pretensioner functionality is retained, as well as the “seat belt not buckled” sensor—all of which also goes through the factory seat plug.
    4. The factory BMW sliders have ~double the travel of aftermarket sliders. This makes the back seat still useable, both for people or for loading track tires into the back seat.
    5. Using the factory slider means no Swiss cheese adapter plate is required—the slider just bolts to the floor of the car, just like stock.
    6. Slider slots: The Cobra Nogaro has another unique feature that I have not seen on any other seats—slots in the seat base, that would otherwise be wasted space, to clear the slider. This means the seat can be mounted lower in the car before it runs into interference. As someone who is 6’4, with most of my height in my Torso and often wearing a helmet in the car, this is a huge win for me—this seat will allow me to be in the car without a reclined seat for the first time, ever! I can actually fit an entire fist over my head while sitting in the car, now.

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    E46 Manual slider with seat installed, with Brey Krause R-9227 manual slider release handle.

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    E46 Power slider without seat, with sub strap mount showing. Slider is controlled by an e30 window switch—I grabbed a factory e30 window switch wiring harness from an e30 that was getting parted out for an OE plug install. All wiring goes through the factory seat plug, so installing/removing the seat is as easy as with the stock seat—one plug for everything.

    Weight savings
    Excluding the fire extinguisher, but including the mounts and sliders, I saved 59 lbs—almost exactly the weight of a stock power/leather seat! I did get the GRP buckets—had I ponied up for the carbon buckets, it would have been another ~20 lbs of weight savings. Perhaps equally importantly, the setup lowers the COG. Most of the weight of the seat setup is in the base of the seat (side mounts, sliders, seat base). Additionally, my seating position is a couple inches lower than stock—not an insignificant amount of weight to get mounted lower!

    Driving Impressions
    Driving in the Nogaro is very similar to other fixed back seats, if you have experienced that. Having your seat bolted directly to the car, instead of sitting on box spring, means you’re much more in touch with what the car is doing at all times. Having a competent suspension becomes more important, but in exchange you are provided with more information about the cars behavior than you could even get from a stock style seat. The seat also holds you in place far better than stock, which means you spend far less time bracing yourself in place and far more time focusing on driving the car. Having a bucket seat doesn’t make the car itself notably faster, but it does enable you to be a faster driver. On track, no contest compared to a stock seat—at no point am I fighting to hold myself in place, as you do with stock seats. They aren’t as supportive as a dedicated race seat, but they almost are—without the huge street tradeoffs associated with a race seat.


    Conclusion
    This post went on longer than I planned, but seats are a project I have been pondering for years. I wanted to fully flush out how I ended up, where I ended up.

    The Cobra Nogaro occupies a unique place in the market, with several benefits over competing seats that are not immediately obvious. For a car that still sees street use, I believe they are the only non OE fixed back bucket seat that comes without significant compromises. The Nogaros gets you 90% of the benefit of a traditional race seat with almost none of the tradeoffs normally associated with a fixed back bucket. Additionally, they’re 100% made in Great Britain—no Chinese parts here! It is the only aftermarket seat that is made with the same priorities that the car manufacturers use when they do fixed back buckets for street driven, track designed cars.

    2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
    2012 LMB/Black 128i
    2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

    #2
    Yeah I’ll be using the E30 switch setup as well, instructions are alright, figured I’d ask in case you had photos since that always helps 👍🏼


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Comment


      #3
      Here’s the connection i made for the switch. I had no use for the rest of the wires but didn’t bother to strip them. My e30 harness only had 4 wires.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment


        #4
        Looking at your setup. You’ll need to connect the red/brown power terminal back to the main yellow connector. The connector circled in yellow looks like the wiring for the motor that i used. You can find the corresponding colors from my wiring. Only the two thick wires from the motor are used. The other two thinner yellow wires are for memory settings.

        Your switch harness seems to have 5 wires. But the two brown look like ground. I would use the thickness of the wires to determine which ones to connect to the motor. I recall them being different thicknesses.



        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        Last edited by jk715; 01-18-2021, 08:46 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Obioban View Post

          BMW doesn't sell the sliders separately-- only as part of a seat base.

          You could also buy used non M manual seats from a normal e46, on fanatics/etc.
          Gotcha. Ok I think I'll hit up a junk yard first, if I can't find some I may just use the power sliders to get them in and then if I come across some manual ones later I can switch

          Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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            #6
            Originally posted by repoman89 View Post
            Seems as good a place to ask as any — what do I need to do to my stock electric coupe sliders / BK mount setup to run a harness? Pretty unfamiliar with harnesses and mounting in general but lot of people at the track have been recommending it, and I want to be as safe as possible. I have a local HMS I can go ask but figured it’d be good to go into it semi-knowledgeable.
            If you want to retain back seat functionality, this is the best harness mounting option IMO (and what I'm running):


            And for lap belts:


            In terms of using electric sliders, all you need is an e30 sunroof (or window) switch. Other than that, unbolt from old sliders, wire up as per this, use.

            HMS sells everything above, plus harnesses that'll work with them.

            2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
            2012 LMB/Black 128i
            2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

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              #7
              Anyone have issues with quality control on these seats or the BK mounts? I ordered a set and one of the seats had a deformed headrest and was the wrong material entirely. The other had a fold in the vinyl as well as a stain. Half of the hardware from the BK mount set was missing and the switch bracket holes were manufactured incorrectly as to not align with the seat mounts. What a nightmare. Thankfully HMS customer service was great and is making it right by sending replacements but this was a huge let down. Pics attached for reference.

              Attached Files

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                #8
                Originally posted by lvm3sm46 View Post
                Pretty much both rails but best bet is to find someone parting out a car locally or junk yard
                Obioban
                Follow up question- how did you do the wiring? The sliders I got have everything, but no wiring, so I need plugs and pigtails at the very least.

                The B-K brackets have the wiring pinout for the E30 switch, but the instructions are completely unclear about the actual seat motors- labeled I, II, III and IV.

                Looks like I need to get an E30 pigtail for the window switch and pigtails for the two connectors on the power seat motor in order to make this work. Any advice on sources? I'll be searching on Google, Ebay, etc.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thinking I'm ordering seats tomorrow, staying with the power sliders, using the E30 switch.

                  Now I just have the headache of seat heats, they are rarely used but I'm obsessed with getting some as I don't like the idea of obsolete buttons not to mention seat heats are nice on those winter drives.

                  I'll have to read this whole thread and begin my search for a non-destructive wiring method for everything I'd like to do.
                  2004 Silbergrau Metallic 6MT
                  Karbonius/OEM Snorkel/Flap/HTE Tuned
                  Ssv1/Catted Sec. 1/SS 2.5" Sec. 2/SCZA

                  OE CSL Bootlid/AS SSK/BC Coils/4.10 Gears/ Sportline 8S Wheels/Cobra Nogaros
                  RACP Plates/Vincebar/CMP/Turner RTAB/Beisan

                  2006 M6 Black Saphire SMG
                  Instagram

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Are E39 seat heats a good option? I've watched a video where a guy takes a single E39 seat heat and kind of gets it halfway under the bottom cushion and halfway under the back cushion, looks OK I guess.

                    I'd love to have 2 separate seat heats per factory but dont really see how one could have 1 seat heat under the bottom cushion and 1 seat heat in the back postion and still allow enough velcro contact to make the cushions stick to the seat. Seems to do this correctly cushions must be cut open.

                    Second thing is BMWs are rare in junkyards around my town. I'll most definitely be looking for manual sliders but if I can't find anything I'll use my OEM power sliders I will not be doing anything I can't reverse by simply removing the sliders correct?

                    My big thing is always non-destructive modifications, for example I'll need to source seat wiring harnesses, as I don't want to hack up my original harness.
                    for seat heats and/or E30 switch.

                    Third thing, how is the occupancy sensor dealt with? Can it be made to have full functionality or are we just tricking it so the passenger airbag is going off everytime?

                    Thanks.
                    2004 Silbergrau Metallic 6MT
                    Karbonius/OEM Snorkel/Flap/HTE Tuned
                    Ssv1/Catted Sec. 1/SS 2.5" Sec. 2/SCZA

                    OE CSL Bootlid/AS SSK/BC Coils/4.10 Gears/ Sportline 8S Wheels/Cobra Nogaros
                    RACP Plates/Vincebar/CMP/Turner RTAB/Beisan

                    2006 M6 Black Saphire SMG
                    Instagram

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Casa de Mesa View Post
                      Hey Cubieman what is the 2nd pic of the wiring harness that looks like it's from a donor car?

                      When I bought my seat bases, I got everything, including that wiring in the 2nd pic. Is that your wiring you already have or is that just a reference pic?

                      I'm asking because I'm trying to see what else I might be missing that I don't have yet should I decide to do heated seats (and converting anything else I need to - seat belt receiver/pretensioners, etc.). As far as I can tell, I should have everything but I might not see the trees through the forest yet... or however that saying goes.
                      So that particular set of connectors/pigtails (the large ones) come up from under the carpet and then connect to the seat. The two smaller connectors connect to the back of the switch console.

                      The only reason I have that stuff it is a while back I put halos in my car and added a kill switch to the console (like the one you are switching out) and bought a replacement (heated) console from MpartsWW so I could always make it stock again, they also sent those pigtails. They sold it as a heated seat retrofit kit on ebay.

                      You should not need those pigtails for the install, however it looks like Bry5on is using them for more easily identifying what wires do what in the main seating harness, I may be wrong.

                      I do believe all you need is the main harness for the seat thinned down so it only does what you need, in out case, seat belts and seat heats. From there you either can build some extra wiring bits so for example an e39 seat heat plugs in or simply splice right in.

                      Hopefully you got more lucky with the seats you bought and they are heated so you can use that harness or even the heaters. My "seat guy" claimed they were heated so I was all excited to get the rails/harness/seat heats. As it turns out im just working away at some rusty ass seat rails so I can paint them up.
                      2004 Silbergrau Metallic 6MT
                      Karbonius/OEM Snorkel/Flap/HTE Tuned
                      Ssv1/Catted Sec. 1/SS 2.5" Sec. 2/SCZA

                      OE CSL Bootlid/AS SSK/BC Coils/4.10 Gears/ Sportline 8S Wheels/Cobra Nogaros
                      RACP Plates/Vincebar/CMP/Turner RTAB/Beisan

                      2006 M6 Black Saphire SMG
                      Instagram

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Got mine installed today. I'll detail it out on my build thread at a later date, but wanted to share a couple of things:
                        • I wish I had gone the manual slider route. I'm regretting the power slider decision...
                        • The quality control on MTC switches leaves a lot to be desired. They are terrible.
                          • One had the arrow labels on the buttons pointing the wrong way (towards each other). It worked though.
                          • The second switch was shorting to ground. After spending 4 hours blowing fuses, rechecking wires, tracing things back with multimeter, I finally figured out that the brand new switch was bad.
                        • I had to clearance the holes on one of the seat mounts like others have. They were off by about 2-3 mm.
                        • I bought the fabric marker pens to dye the thread but haven't done it yet.
                        The end result is awesome. With the seat in the most tilted back position (lowest holes on the back, highest hole on the front), they are perfect and almost identical to how I drove the car with the stock seats. I sit pretty upright.

                        I haven't driven with the seats yet (34 degrees and raining today) but can't to give these a shakedown.

                        MTC Switch Home (reversed labels/arrows):
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                        MTC Switch Forum I opened it up after I figured out what was going on and you can see where it was shorting.
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                        Build thread: Topaz Blue to Shark Blue

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                          #13
                          Lol at the switch!

                          iirc you could reverse the arrows on the switch when you have it opened up.

                          … I eventually ended up using manual sliders on both sides.

                          2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
                          2012 LMB/Black 128i
                          2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hey Cubieman glad to hear BK is listening. That says a lot about them.

                            The rear floor bolts were cantered out a bit, but not horrible. I guess I'm used to generic side mount / seat mounts so I was expecting it to be worse, actually. I was ready for battle and didn't even get to break out a pocket knife.

                            I can't help but wonder if some of what BK is dealing with are the tolerances of another manufacturer (i.e., the Cobra seats). Your case seems a bit extreme though.

                            Also, I reread my last post. No clue what combo of words I chose ended up putting links to Nam3's home page, ha

                            Obioban - Yeah, I thought about opening up the "good switch" to reverse the arrows, but I think I'm gonna put it in the passenger seat so I can mess with anyone who sits there 😜 ...at least until I get manual sliders.
                            Build thread: Topaz Blue to Shark Blue

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Obioban - I realize this thread is about the Cobras but I had a question re the BK hardware and I’m hoping you may be able to clarify something.

                              I am close to pulling the trigger on a set of Sparcos QRT Performance seats, and I happen to find someone who installed the same seats on his car. The only difference being he went with power sliders whereas I plan to go with manual. But he noted one small issue where he was unable to use any notch other than the highest setting on his side mounts for the rear of his seat. If he tried to go even one notch lower, the seat bottoms would bottom out and come in contact with the OEM rails. And so the net result is a seating position that’s too level; ideally the rear would be positioned lower relative to the front.

                              Do you know what the workaround for this is? I have a note out to BK but figured I’d try my luck here as well.

                              FYI here’s another thread (different from above) but I think they encountered a similar issue despite using non-BK hardware, and thus had to switch to Sparco specific side mounts.

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