School me on fixed bucket seats and mounting solutions!

[BigRussia]

Ive decided I need fixed back bucket seats in my street car/weekend warrior M3. I don't even want to do another HPDE event until I have them as there's no point spending money on tires and track fees when I'm going to be sliding around inside the car in my slick tired leather seats, hanging onto the steering wheel as a brace.

Been researching seats and brackets but I'm still kind of lost and confused with all the different options and terms (bottom mount, side mount, sliders, no slider, using stock belts, etc). So wanted to reach out and see if you guys can direct me to the right setup for me, within my budget. Lightweightness of the buckets and mounting hardware is somewhat important to me too. One of the benefits I'm looking forward to besides better hold is shaving a good amount of weight from the car by getting rid of the heavy factory powered and heated leather seats.

Seats: My car is a street car that isn't daily driven, mostly a weekend drive and the occasional HPDE (track day, autox). So I'd like a seat that holds me good, but also doesn't make me hate my life driving around town. I've been eyeing either the Recaro Pole Positions or Sparco EVO QRT. From my research and asking around these seem to be the best combo of comfortable, good hold, and price. I've also considered maybe the Bride Zeta III (if I found for a good deal used). I'm a fairly skinny guy, 5'9" around 150-155lbs.

Mounts/Brackets: I'm a little lost here, I was thinking of buying the VAC Race Seat Installation kit. With no slider for the drivers, and slider for the passenger with the thought that hopefully I can access my backseats sliding the passenger seat all the way up, so my backseats don't become completely useless and inaccessible.
https://store.vacmotorsports.com/rac...e46-p1605.aspx

But I also see Brey-Krause mounts being touted as the best option. Since I'm considering PPs i was looking at the R-9254 and R-9255s. They actually seem to be cheaper than the VAC mounts too to my surprise.

Belts: I want to utilize the factory seat belts, and have no intentions of running harnesses or installing a roll bar or half cage. What would I need to retain my factory seatbelt and have it be compatible with the seats and mounts?

So yeah guys definitely want recommendations/advice and what some of you are running in your E46s, especially those who have weekend warrior streetcars! I recently put a quieter muffler on my car just so I can drive and enjoy it around town more often, so definitely don't want to compromise its drivability and make it a pain to drive regularly. Thanks in advance!

[eacmen]

Sorry to say it but any fixed back seat without a roll bar is safety compromised.

Best you can do without roll bar and 6pt harnesses is Quick Fit Pros with factory seats or a CG Lock with the factory seat belts.


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[Obioban]

The ability to run the stock seatbelt properly is entirely dependent on the seat you choose. To be effective the lap belts need to be firmly pressed against you-- which generally means low sides on the belt pass through area.

I put most of my thoughts about this in this thread (lots of it applies to the situation even if you don't end up on those seats):

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...ck-bucket-seat

I think the Nogaros are generally in a league of their own when it comes to streetable track seat. If I didn't run them, I'd probably run something like a sportster CS and an anti submarining 4 point.

Sorry to say it but any fixed back seat without a roll bar is safety compromised.

Best you can do without roll bar and 6pt harnesses is Quick Fit Pros with factory seats or a CG Lock with the factory seat belts.


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This is bad information in several ways...
1) roll bars are quite dangerous to run on the street, making you net safety significantly worse
2) roll bars generally mean you have to trailer to the track (as you can no longer put a set of tires in the back seat), and trailering is dangerous
3) on track, roll bars help in certain accidents sometimes, if they well designed (rolling over), but can be significantly more dangerous if you go into a wall backwards or sideways
4) fixed back seats are no worse off than reclining seats in a roll, with or without a roll bar. See how you could get fixed back seats in this car stock, in the CSL (which has no roll bar).
5) a 4/5/6 point harness (assuming the 4 point is anti submarining, like the quick fit is (but not unique to it) is always MUCH safer in a crash
6) a 4/5/6 point harness enables the use of a hans device, which is hugely beneficial

I design vehicle safety systems for a living (albeit for military vehicles as of last year). I've given a ton of thought to this, because the situation applies to my own car. A fixed back seat/harness/hans setup provides a significantly safety improvement over stock, without decreasing the street safety or practicality of the car. Certainly it is not as safe a fully caged/fire supressed/etc race car. But, for many people that's a non starter-- and that doesn't mean they shouldn't make the car safer than stock. Roll bars... are often a net safety downgrade on track IMO, and always a significant decrease in street safety (and practicality).

[tnord]

1) roll bars are quite dangerous to run on the street, making you net safety significantly worse

....Roll bars... are often a net safety downgrade on track IMO, and always a significant decrease in street safety (and practicality).

I agree that roll cages on the street are a bad idea from the risk of bouncing your noggin off of steel tubing. But I don't see a problem with a back-half cage in a street car safety wise.

[eacmen]

The ability to run the stock seatbelt properly is entirely dependent on the seat you choose. To be effective the lap belts need to be firmly pressed against you-- which generally means low sides on the belt pass through area.

I put most of my thoughts about this in this thread (lots of it applies to the situation even if you don't end up on those seats):

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...ck-bucket-seat

I think the Nogaros are generally in a league of their own when it comes to streetable track seat. If I didn't run them, I'd probably run something like a sportster CS and an anti submarining 4 point.



This is bad information in several ways...
1) roll bars are quite dangerous to run on the street, making you net safety significantly worse
2) roll bars generally mean you have to trailer to the track (as you can no longer put a set of tires in the back seat), and trailering is dangerous
3) on track, roll bars help in certain accidents sometimes, if they well designed (rolling over), but can be significantly more dangerous if you go into a wall backwards or sideways
4) fixed back seats are no worse off than reclining seats in a roll, with or without a roll bar. See how you could get fixed back seats in this car stock, in the CSL (which has no roll bar).
5) a 4/5/6 point harness (assuming the 4 point is anti submarining, like the quick fit is (but not unique to it) is always MUCH safer in a crash
6) a 4/5/6 point harness enables the use of a hans device, which is hugely beneficial

I design vehicle safety systems for a living (albeit for military vehicles as of last year). I've given a ton of thought to this, because the situation applies to my own car. A fixed back seat/harness/hans setup provides a significantly safety improvement over stock, without decreasing the street safety or practicality of the car. Certainly it is not as safe a fully caged/fire supressed/etc race car. But, for many people that's a non starter-- and that doesn't mean they shouldn't make the car safer than stock. Roll bars... are often a net safety downgrade on track IMO, and always a significant decrease in street safety (and practicality).

Not disagreeing with any particular point you made. However your statements run contrary to the safety rules of the clubs I have run with. If you are an solo/instructor and clubs allow you to self-tech your car then you can run whatever you want. But as a student where the club inspects your safety setup (mostly for the instructor getting in the right seat), I have been told directly by CCA and ACNA clubs that aftermarket fixed back seats will fail tech without a roll bar. Obviously this changes club to club and chapter to chapter, but your mileage may vary.

The Negros basically look stock so you would likely get away with running them with 3pts.

Also unless you have documentation from Schroth that the Quick Fits are safe to use with the Negaros they also will not pass tech (PCA and ACNA were notoriously bitchy about QFPs even when I had stock seats).

If you're running solo I have seen people argue their way into passing, but if you got someone in the right seat it is likely going to be a flip of a coin.

My advice to the op is to contact the groups you regularly run with, ask them about what you plan to do with the car and if it will pass tech or not. Print out their responses and bring it to the track day so the guy volunteering his time in the tech line to get free track time doesn't fail you just because he's grumpy.

[Obioban]

I agree that roll cages on the street are a bad idea from the risk of bouncing your noggin off of steel tubing. But I don't see a problem with a back-half cage in a street car safety wise.

You'd be amazed how much you move around in an accident with a 3 point seat belt-- it's not at all unlikely for your head to make its way between the front seats to hit a roll bar.

[Obioban]

Not disagreeing with any particular point you made. However your statements run contrary to the safety rules of the clubs I have run with. If you are an solo/instructor and clubs allow you to self-tech your car then you can run whatever you want. But as a student where the club inspects your safety setup (mostly for the instructor getting in the right seat), I have been told directly by CCA and ACNA clubs that aftermarket fixed back seats will fail tech without a roll bar. Obviously this changes club to club and chapter to chapter, but your mileage may vary.

The Negros basically look stock so you would likely get away with running them with 3pts.

Also unless you have documentation from Schroth that the Quick Fits are safe to use with the Negaros they also will not pass tech (PCA and ACNA were notoriously bitchy about QFPs even when I had stock seats).

If you're running solo I have seen people argue their way into passing, but if you got someone in the right seat it is likely going to be a flip of a coin.

My advice to the op is to contact the groups you regularly run with, ask them about what you plan to do with the car and if it will pass tech or not. Print out their responses and bring it to the track day so the guy volunteering his time in the tech line to get free track time doesn't fail you just because he's grumpy.

If you go through the PCA or CCA rules, everything in my setup is 100% compliant. Never done an audi club event, so can't comment.

Schroth is happy to provide anyone who asks with a letter certifying that the Nogaros have been tasted to work properly with the quick fit.

My advice is to develop a system that's net safest for how you use the car, not base your setup on a grumpy ignorant tech :P
(that said, I've been given a single iota of flack from NASA or over multiple PCA or CCA chapters (though I am running a 6 point, not a quick fit))

[bigjae46]

It’s kind of a no-brainer with an E46. Quick-Fits on a stock seat for a dual purpose car.

A fixed back seat is likely better but not necessary until you go with a 6pt. At that point, you need some rollover protection.


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[BigRussia]

Thanks for the replies, but I think those that are suggesting the Quick-Fits with the stock seats for safety reasons missed the point of my post. While safety is important, no where did I mention in my post that it was a priority. Also one of the other benefits I mentioned Im looking into fixed buckets for, besides getting better hold during spirited driving and HPDE, was weight saving.

I have no desire to retain my heavy factory drivers seat; it is beat, worn, leather slicked beyond conditioning or repair, and the backrest has developed a wobble that I can feel under braking and acceleration. So keeping that seat which holds me like a slip-n-slide and adding harnesses to it is not something Im looking to do truthfully. Ive seen a number of E46 M3s online that had fixed back seats and running the factory seatbelts and wondered how they were running those (and also wondered if the lap belt was actually close to the body and snug of course).

My car's is not a daily driver and rarely gets driven, maybe once a month. I've put about 7k miles on it in the past 3 years, so again safety isn't something that is a big concern as long as it isn't outright dangerous.
I see the BK mounts say on their site description that stock belts and receptables can be used?

[eacmen]

Thanks for the replies, but I think those that are suggesting the Quick-Fits with the stock seats for safety reasons missed the point of my post. While safety is important, no where did I mention in my post that it was a priority. Also one of the other benefits I mentioned Im looking into fixed buckets for, besides getting better hold during spirited driving and HPDE, was weight saving.

I have no desire to retain my heavy factory drivers seat; it is beat, worn, leather slicked beyond conditioning or repair, and the backrest has developed a wobble that I can feel under braking and acceleration. So keeping that seat which holds me like a slip-n-slide and adding harnesses to it is not something Im looking to do truthfully. Ive seen a number of E46 M3s online that had fixed back seats and running the factory seatbelts and wondered how they were running those (and also wondered if the lap belt was actually close to the body and snug of course).

My car's is not a daily driver and rarely gets driven, maybe once a month. I've put about 7k miles on it in the past 3 years, so again safety isn't something that is a big concern as long as it isn't outright dangerous.
I see the BK mounts say on their site description that stock belts and receptables can be used?

Quick Fit Pro in stock seats kept me planted, did not slide around, and let me run a HANS on track and 3pts on the street.

While you might not care about safety (you really really should btw) you should at least care if you'll pass tech.

My recommendation would still be QFP with stock seats.


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[Obioban]

Thanks for the replies, but I think those that are suggesting the Quick-Fits with the stock seats for safety reasons missed the point of my post. While safety is important, no where did I mention in my post that it was a priority. Also one of the other benefits I mentioned Im looking into fixed buckets for, besides getting better hold during spirited driving and HPDE, was weight saving.

I have no desire to retain my heavy factory drivers seat; it is beat, worn, leather slicked beyond conditioning or repair, and the backrest has developed a wobble that I can feel under braking and acceleration. So keeping that seat which holds me like a slip-n-slide and adding harnesses to it is not something Im looking to do truthfully. Ive seen a number of E46 M3s online that had fixed back seats and running the factory seatbelts and wondered how they were running those (and also wondered if the lap belt was actually close to the body and snug of course).

My car's is not a daily driver and rarely gets driven, maybe once a month. I've put about 7k miles on it in the past 3 years, so again safety isn't something that is a big concern as long as it isn't outright dangerous.
I see the BK mounts say on their site description that stock belts and receptables can be used?

The BK mounts let you run the stock belt receptacles. If the 3 point will be snug to your body depends on the design of the seat.

[T-Rex]

Ive decided I need fixed back bucket seats in my street car/weekend warrior M3. I don't even want to do another HPDE event until I have them as there's no point spending money on tires and track fees when I'm going to be sliding around inside the car in my slick tired leather seats, hanging onto the steering wheel as a brace.

Been researching seats and brackets but I'm still kind of lost and confused with all the different options and terms (bottom mount, side mount, sliders, no slider, using stock belts, etc). So wanted to reach out and see if you guys can direct me to the right setup for me, within my budget. Lightweightness of the buckets and mounting hardware is somewhat important to me too. One of the benefits I'm looking forward to besides better hold is shaving a good amount of weight from the car by getting rid of the heavy factory powered and heated leather seats.

Seats: My car is a street car that isn't daily driven, mostly a weekend drive and the occasional HPDE (track day, autox). So I'd like a seat that holds me good, but also doesn't make me hate my life driving around town. I've been eyeing either the Recaro Pole Positions or Sparco EVO QRT. From my research and asking around these seem to be the best combo of comfortable, good hold, and price. I've also considered maybe the Bride Zeta III (if I found for a good deal used). I'm a fairly skinny guy, 5'9" around 150-155lbs.

Mounts/Brackets: I'm a little lost here, I was thinking of buying the VAC Race Seat Installation kit. With no slider for the drivers, and slider for the passenger with the thought that hopefully I can access my backseats sliding the passenger seat all the way up, so my backseats don't become completely useless and inaccessible.
https://store.vacmotorsports.com/rac...e46-p1605.aspx

But I also see Brey-Krause mounts being touted as the best option. Since I'm considering PPs i was looking at the R-9254 and R-9255s. They actually seem to be cheaper than the VAC mounts too to my surprise.

Belts: I want to utilize the factory seat belts, and have no intentions of running harnesses or installing a roll bar or half cage. What would I need to retain my factory seatbelt and have it be compatible with the seats and mounts?

So yeah guys definitely want recommendations/advice and what some of you are running in your E46s, especially those who have weekend warrior streetcars! I recently put a quieter muffler on my car just so I can drive and enjoy it around town more often, so definitely don't want to compromise its drivability and make it a pain to drive regularly. Thanks in advance!

I found myself in the same situation about 24 months ago - we're even the same height/weight. In the end, I did BK mounts 9222/9225/9228 /Recaro SPG/ Schroth 6pt/ BK rear deck lid harness mounts R-1246 and LOVE it. I'll upload some photos when I get home tonight for you, but suffice to say I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[bigjae46]

I’d just get fixed buckets if it’s rarely street driven. I ran quick fit pros with my fixed back seats. Was it ideal? Probably not but anything between stock to cage, harness and a back braced seat is compromised in some way.

A fixed seat and a 6pt harness does make the car really difficult to get into. Other than that...see no reason not to do it if it spends a large majority of the time on track.


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[tnord]

You'd be amazed how much you move around in an accident with a 3 point seat belt-- it's not at all unlikely for your head to make its way between the front seats to hit a roll bar.

I get it, but if it was that big of a risk would they let you option a GT3 etc with one?

[Sharocks]

I have Recaro SPG XL's in mine. Uhh with the lap belt, it's, uhh kinda sketchy I won't lie. The belt doesn't really work that well with the seat but I knew that going into it. I think Pole Positions would work well for you as the XL's are wide, like too wide for me (I'm a 32ish waist, damn Rona pounds). But if you decide on running a cage or some sort of harness, PP's might be a little low for you as the holes that the harnesses pass through are low.