Spend my money

[dafuq]

Ok, now that I've got your attention...

A year ago, I picked up an 85K mile 2003.5 slick-top stripper with the main goal of learning how to drive a manual. The plan was to move on to a newer, and at the time what I considered “better”, 911 once I was comfortable driving it.

Well, fast forward a year. Driving a manual is not an issue anymore. More importantly, I’ve come to realize that this is a really fun car that can deliver a lot of smiles on the back roads. Instead of moving on to a 911 I’m going to hold on to this and wring as much fun and performance out of it as I can.

To be upfront, I’m not a car guy, I’m a drive guy. I love the feel of high speed cornering and I couldn’t give a shit if its in a BMW, a Porsche or the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile. I say that for context because I’ve been through a lot of the threads here and on the old M3 forum and it seems like there are a lot of places I could start but I’m not sure which order to go in or what the best choices are.

That’s where I need to enlist everyone here that wants to help. This isn’t a blank check exercise but say you had $5k to 10Kish to bring the performance level up, how would you spend that money? Because that’s what I plan on doing.

A few things to note:

1. Driving will primarily be fun back-roads with maybe some autocross and HPDE thrown in. But I’m not really focused on either of those so I want it set up for tight back roads. I understand that this will never be a HP monster and I’m good with that. That’s part of the appeal – overkill is just wastage.
2. Its currently unmodded other than an AC Schnitzer exhaust that was done years ago. It sounds a bit tinny to me so I’m not opposed to updating it.
3. The PPI came back super clean other than a hairline crack on the exhaust manifold. We decided to monitor it before doing anything. But this could push a new exhaust system up the list if its got good bang for the buck.
4. None of the recommend maintenance has been done to date but I am having the front and rear subframe reinforced and RTABs replaced in a few weeks once the parts are back in stock. Feel free to exclude this cost from the $10K amount.
5. I’ll monitor the oil and do the rod bearings if things look funky or as I get closer to 100K miles.
6. The shifter feels pretty long and not a crisp as I’d like.
7. At 5-6K RPMs corers feel a little floaty to me. Would like to feel a bit more planted in turns so that I can carry more momentum out.
8. I don’t wrench. As in not even doing my oil - don’t have the knowledge or space but am not opposed to starting with easy stuff and learning. So, factor in $115 per hour in labor.
9. I want to be able to feel the impact of each change so I can understand how they each impact the car’s performance. That means I’m not doing everything at once.
10. I’m not doing forced induction – I have that covered in a different car.

So, where do I begin?

[j0nwall]

Start by reading this: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...uspension-mods

Lots of helpful info on steps taken to improve the handling characteristics of the car.

1) FCAB's (Since it doesn't sound like they've ever been done)
2) Rear Camber Arms
3) Camber Plates or E36 Top Hats for front camber adjustment
4) Sway Bar(s) (After reading the thread above, figure out what you want to do)
5) Decent set of shocks and springs (whether that is a coilover set up is up to you and I would recommend TCK SA's if you're primarily on the street and going with coilovers)
6) Performance Alignment (Refer to this thread. Alignment is pretty much identical between both chassis: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...or-your-E36-M3)
7) Short Shifter Kit to address the throw of the oem shifter
8) Decent set tires (Continental Extreme Contact Sports have treated me well for street driving)
9) Toy around with the idea of wheels. That will affect handling character.

Estimated Costs (Not including any of the maintenance you should be doing)
Turner Spherical FCAB's: $300
Turner Rear Camber Arms: $300
Front Sway Bar + Adjustable Endlinks: $375
TCK SA's: $2,500
Alignment: $120
SSK: $450
Wheels + Tires: $2,000 (At the lower end for wheels and tires that are worth it and I would actually suggest this higher up on my list)

Looking at over $6k on the low side just for those suggestions, not including labor and assuming that all is well with your car.

I won't comment on labor rates, because I don't know what your local shops may quote for time taken to complete the work.

There's a lot of resources here, so knock yourself out.

[enjoy_m3]

If all maintaince is already done or planned (subframe top and bottom, rod bearings, good bushings) Then start with tires and brakes. I like to keep things simple and focus on the driving experience. Finding the actually limit of the car in stock form is the ideal way and having good brakes for performance and more importantly, safety. From there, then you can shop suspension. I have KW v2s which some people hate or love. I'm happy for a dual purpose(track/street) car. But they are too soft for the track when running 200tw tires. Looking at ohlins now. Or consider adding sway bars first. It all depends on how you want to approach it. Do everything at once and feel a big difference or progressively, and feel how the car actually handles and what you need to do to suit your driving style to be a better driver. Good luck!

[Nihilation]

Having spent a lot of money on various cars and mods over the years, I'll say that a good driver seat ($1500 w mounts) has brought more smiles than most other mods. Good front sport brake pads ($150), wider sticky 265's all around($1000). Get a catless header ($1000), high flows on the section 1 pipe($1000), decent ECU tune($500), basic coilovers ($1500) with camber plates, corner balanced. That should really be a hit.

That should be well under $10k but easily over 7.

[Nate047]

Replace the clutch because you learned on it and it's prob toast now
Brake pads
Tires
Headers since the stock manifold is cracked anyway
Bulletproof the VANOS
Do the bearings
Driving school

[S14]

From what your intent is, I'd focus on these areas after all the maintenance is squared away:

Square wheels and tires. 265/35/18 is a good size for street use. Run a good tire like the Michelan P4S
seats like Cobra Nagaro for street use
coilovers like Ohlins R&T
exhaust upgrade, the AR20 resonator removes the tinny noise

And if money is less of your concern, a carbon airbox will bring lots of smiles and joy to your driving environment!

[dafuq]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Lots to look into and learn what each does.

Driver mods are definitely #1 way to improvement. but until covid sorts itself out I'm not having anyone I don't know in my car with me.

Good call on the tires. I forgot to mention that I did put a new set of ps4s on after purchase.

[tnord]

the best thing to do to develop the driver is to make sure the car is reliable. that means vanos, rod bearings, subframe, and cooling system are at the top of the list. all new fluids and filters. diff, trans, fuel, air.

then address the consumables - tires and brakes. I don't mean huge tires and huge brakes, just get stuff meant for the task of track driving. fresh rotors, pads that are up to the task, flush the system and fill with new DOT 4, and some brake lines. I'd put an alignment in this category as well, I don't think you necessarily need any adjustable arms or camber plates or anything to start. just work within the stock adjustability.

I wouldn't worry about paying Herman the German big bucks to put on the mega buck exhaust system. Just do the euro sect 1 & 2 with cats. I wouldn't even suggest this if your manifold wasn't cracked. I don't think you'll need a tune after this, but I could be wrong. for what they cost, I guess you could do engine and trans mounts at the same time.

after that stabilize the chassis. worn original parts take priority. bushings (sphericals and such are not needed, stock is fine), tie rods, ball joints, etc. then I'd do shocks/springs or a basic coilover setup like TC Kline.

especially with shop rates built in, that will eat up every bit of your $10k. I cannot stress enough that making horsepower is last if you want to develop as a driver. I'm not saying I'm the ultimate authority, but I did DE stuff for about 5 years, and raced in competitive classes with SCCA for another 7 with a handful of trophies to show for it. I built my own cars, and crewed for a number of others.

A LOT of going fast is having the confidence that your car is going to do what you ask it to do, without any surprises. A basically stock car with good tires and brakes is plenty capable.

[IamFODI]

Love this thread so far. Too late to weigh in?

[dafuq]

Never too late. I'm still planning the order out. And still learning about which will have the biggest impact.

Subframe work and bushings are scheduled for early October.

Going to have them look at the exhaust crack at that point. If it needs to be done then either euro headers and new section 1 or super sprint headers and new section 1. Either way, I want to go with a catted version so it will pass emissions.

If I don't need to address the exhaust system just yet, thinking of upgrading to a SSK. Then suspension/alignment. I do like the idea of a seat swap at some point, too.

Brakes are good for now but will be addressed when it's time for new pads.

[IamFODI]

Cool. I don't have a lot of specific recommendations besides what's been said, but I can offer some more general advice.

First of all, I love your goals and the way you described your sensibilities. The distinction between a car enthusiast and a driving enthusiast is underappreciated. I'm more of a driving enthusiast than a car enthusiast myself, so it's always nice to meet someone who feels similarly.

I also agree with the general thrust of the thread so far. If I were to write up a priority list, it'd come out looking pretty similar:

1. Reliability/durability
2. The right tire
3. Weight reduction (unsprung, then rotating, then other)
4. Select chassis mods (unibody reinforcement, damping, key bushings)
5. Seats
6. Other chassis mods (springs, anti-roll bars, other bushings)
7. Brakes

Sounds like you have the tire pretty much covered. Hard to argue for anything other than the PS4S on this car for street use. Bonus: it's light.

I will push back a bit on tire size. Wider gives you more lateral grip at the expense of feel, feedback, weight, tramlining, hydroplaning, and limit behavior. I'd stay as close to the stock widths as you can without feeling like you're hurting for grip.

I'll also offer a big caveat on suspension arms. The stock ones are made to deform safely in case of an accident. This can save the subframe, the unibody, or the fuel tank from damage. Aftermarket arms will almost never have this feature. For that reason, I'd think long and hard before replacing any suspension arms with aftermarket ones.

Wheels should be very high on your list. They need to be light, rigid, and as small as possible without forcing you into sub-optimal tire choices (so probably 18"). Wheels are unsprung, rotating, and far from the car's center of gravity, so their weight is more influential than just about any other weight on the car. AFAIK, Apex wheels are generally the best combination of weight, rigidity, and cost; there are better options but they are hard to find and/or much more expensive. Whatever you get, stay as close to the stock sizes and offsets as you can; if you have to deviate from stock offsets, err on the side of high offsets because you can always add spacers.

Chassis-wise, you'll have to find your own balance between control and NVH -- not because you need to be super comfy all the time, but because you want a good signal-to-noise ratio in the car's feedback (something the stock setup is great at). This is one reason why unibody reinforcement (especially around the suspension mounting points) is such a good mod: it always adds control and rarely adds NVH. Sometimes it decreases NVH. It's basically downside-free, and it can reduce the NVH penalties from stiffening suspension pieces. In the suspension, start with bushing swaps and monoball conversions that will tighten things up without introducing a ton more NVH. Refresh everything else but keep it stock. At that point, if you still feel like the car moves around too much, hit the thread linked above and start planning out spring, damper, and anti-roll bar mods. Refresh your drivetrain mounts as well, but keep them stock no matter what.

Seats will make a big difference. Good ones can drop weight while fitting you better and transmitting more feedback. Total game changer if done right.

On brakes: consider a fixed caliper conversion of some kind, with stainless steel brake lines -- not for the extra capacity, but for the better feel. One of the great things about this platform is that there are ways to do that while staying within FCP Euro's parts catalog, which means free brakes for life after the first purchase. E46 folks will have to step in here because I don't know the specifics, but there are Porsche calipers you can use with OE rotors while preserving the stock brake bias. Bonus: the calipers weigh less.

Last but not least, please post a build thread and let us know how everything goes. This looks like an awesome project.

[01SG]

Light and square wheels made the greatest handling difference for me. Before you spend money on a short shift kit find out if the clutch delay valve has been removed. It will make the whole shifting experience about a thousand times better, and best of all it takes ten minutes to remove and costs nothing in parts.

Other than that deferred and preventive maintenance. New stock will be more than sufficient for back-road and limited track use in most areas. The brakes are the weak spot, but proper fluid and pads should do wonders there. Replace the cooling system. Check out the VANOS and all that stuff everyone says. Lower camber arms, all the basic front suspension points. It's not a bad idea to do the bearings money no object, but I'd go for an oil analysis before just doing it.

[TexaZ3]

I'd buy a 911.

[r4dr]

I'd buy a 911.

Yeah... I wonder how much he could get for a slicktop, 6MT M3 if it's in good condition. Add $10k to that and you're a stone's throw away from 997.1 territory aren't you?

[dafuq]

Yeah... I wonder how much he could get for a slicktop, 6MT M3 if it's in good condition. Add $10k to that and you're a stone's throw away from 997.1 territory aren't you?

But is a stock base 997.1 that much better than a well sorted e46 m3? Figure you need to go to at least an S and at that point you're into the high 40s for a high mileage example.

And remember, this is primarily for back roads so you quickly bump up against paying for capabilities that I normally wouldn't approach.