Is E46/E9X M3 -> 911 GT3 just the natural progression of things?

[Maxhouse97]

To be honest (and I realize I am on a M3 forum) another detriment to me tracking my E46 vs my 991 is the level of investment I need to make to the M in order to make it track reliable. Brakes, cooling system, subframe, sway bar brackets, etc. Some of these I have already done, but more to go. The 991 is basically stock outside of track pads and fluid and has been dead reliable.

[MTiz]

I think this thread really puts into perspective the salary gap between me and a lot of you all on this forum. At my salary level (entry-level IT analyst), a $20k-$25k E46 is a nice luxury that I'm working towards and is affordable. An E92 M3 would stretch the budget very thin. A 911 at any trim level is unobtainium, let alone a $140k+ GT3. Maybe in 10-15 years? 😆

[Icecream]

I think this thread really puts into perspective the salary gap between me and a lot of you all on this forum. At my salary level (entry-level IT analyst), a $20k-$25k is a nice luxury that I'm working towards and is affordable. An E92 M3 would stretch the budget very thin. A 911 at any trim level is unobtainium, let alone a $140k+ GT3. Maybe in 10-15 years? 😆

Just remember that at least half of us are full of sh*t lol, start investing now though cause that 10-15 years is really 5 years away.

[oceansize]

I think this thread really puts into perspective the salary gap between me and a lot of you all on this forum. At my salary level (entry-level IT analyst), a $20k-$25k is a nice luxury that I'm working towards and is affordable. An E92 M3 would stretch the budget very thin. A 911 at any trim level is unobtainium, let alone a $140k+ GT3. Maybe in 10-15 years? 😆

The smart play is to buy a highly desirable car, not wreck it or mod it, put a few thousand miles on it and then sell it. You are still out a some number of thousands but you got to drive your dream car for a time at a relatively small cost.

[r4dr]

I think anyone who likes the E46 M3 would enjoy a GT350 a lot. In a lot of ways, it's what the next evolution beyond the E92 M3 should have looked like. I find the GT350 more enjoyable and manageable around the track than an F82 M4. The Shelby interior is in a whole other level of plastic though.

[Obioban]

I think anyone who likes the E46 M3 would enjoy a GT350 a lot. In a lot of ways, it's what the next evolution beyond the E92 M3 should have looked like. I find the GT350 more enjoyable and manageable around the track than an F82 M4. The Shelby interior is in a whole other level of plastic though.

I think I’d prefer it to the m4 for sure— m4 holds zero appeal to me.

That said, part of that I enjoy about the M3 is that it feels like a nicely made thing. The mustang does not. I’d enjoy lapping someone else’s, but don’t have any desire to own one.

Outside of 996, the 911s also feel like a nicely made thing— that’s part of the appeal, IMO.

[Icecream]

I think I’d prefer it to the m4 for sure— m4 holds zero appeal to me.

That said, part of that I enjoy about the M3 is that it feels like a nicely made thing. The mustang does not. I’d enjoy lapping someone else’s, but don’t have any desire to own one.

Outside of 996, the 911s also feel like a nicely made thing— that’s part of the appeal, IMO.

100% true, it is a huge part of the ownership experience. I think I could get over it for the GT350 if it drives spectacularly. If every drive feels like an occasion, I can forgive some flaws. That said, so far every single car I have ever been in across different Makes has that Makes DNA deep inside, across generations, it is almost intangible, and those traits will always present themselves for better or for worse. I have yet to see if the GT350 has done a good enough job of suppressing its humble beginnings or not.

[r4dr]

I'd describe myself as a snob when it comes to American cars -- the GT350 is the one and only American car that's ever come through. That being said, it's a shitbox interior but the moment you drive it, you forgive it. Hell, it's got an MSRP of $60k... and it benchmarks with GT3s on track. I think if BMW made the equivalent it would cost $90k if not $100k+. Hell, if Porsche made the GT350 it would cost what a new GT3 costs lol.

I wish BMW made an equivalent and it was the modern day M3 I'd pay $90k for that.

[Sharocks]

If a GT3 isn't in the cards there are a few alternatives.

LS swap a 997
GT350R
SS 1LE
ZL1 1LE
LS swap an E90 M3

Few things, the only GT3 I'm referring to and ever will refer to is the 997. At 100k plus that's a lot of money for a spicy Beetle. All the cars above are going to be under that 100k cost plus extra money left for mods. Will they be better than a stock 997 GT3? Maybe in a few areas but I can assure you, not in every area. I've driven them and it's really tough to replicate. But these would be my go to alternatives. Plus all new cars are scum transmission so the list of options dwindles daily smh.

[Steve]

I've never driven any of them so I dont really have a horse in the barn here but I guess what I'm saying is i wouldn't be upset to have any of these in my garage. While the Gt3 is the most extreme, they are all a big step above the e46 (maybe you can argue the gt350 isnt) and it would be a shame to dismiss them so fast because racecar. Also it depends what you want and it doesnt have to be all or nothing. If I live on the track, GT3 is probably the most racecar. If I value beauty, exclusivity and a drive through the forest or down the coast alone on a Saturday morning, the F430, takes the trophy.

Agree on the F430, but good luck finding a manual for GT3 money these days as they are rare and have been going for crazy money.

Ferraris are special and provide an amazing experience but it’s hard to beat a Porsche when it comes to doing normal car things as they are very usable.

One other thing to keep in mind is the amount of attention a Ferrari generates. It’s cool, especially at first, but it’s also not that great at the same time. My wife won’t even ride in the 360 without sunglasses at this point because people keep taking camera phone photos whenever we take it out. I never expected this to happen with a 20 year old car in a city full of exotics. It’s something to keep in mind if you want one but don’t like attention. If anything, it’s really made me start appreciating my 997 more because I can go out for a nice drive and just blend in and enjoy the car without a bunch of risky maneuvers happening so people can get next to you to take a picture or give a thumbs up.

[Icecream]

If a GT3 isn't in the cards there are a few alternatives.

LS swap a 997
GT350R
SS 1LE
ZL1 1LE
LS swap an E90 M3

Few things, the only GT3 I'm referring to and ever will refer to is the 997. At 100k plus that's a lot of money for a spicy Beetle. All the cars above are going to be under that 100k cost plus extra money left for mods. Will they be better than a stock 997 GT3? Maybe in a few areas but I can assure you, not in every area. I've driven them and it's really tough to replicate. But these would be my go to alternatives. Plus all new cars are scum transmission so the list of options dwindles daily smh.

Nope. Sorry man but LS swap anything would be hot garbage compared to a GT3. LS line of engines are complete trash in this company. 200 year old design, low hp/liter, slow revving, low redline, not pushing any limits in design or ingenuity the list is endless. Hot swampy garbage.

Agree on the F430, but good luck finding a manual for GT3 money these days as they are rare and have been going for crazy money.

Ferraris are special and provide an amazing experience but it’s hard to beat a Porsche when it comes to doing normal car things as they are very usable.

One other thing to keep in mind is the amount of attention a Ferrari generates. It’s cool, especially at first, but it’s also not that great at the same time. My wife won’t even ride in the 360 without sunglasses at this point because people keep taking camera phone photos whenever we take it out. I never expected this to happen with a 20 year old car in a city full of exotics. It’s something to keep in mind if you want one but don’t like attention. If anything, it’s really made me start appreciating my 997 more because I can go out for a nice drive and just blend in and enjoy the car without a bunch of risky maneuvers happening so people can get next to you to take a picture or give a thumbs up.

Good points, I wouldn't want or care for the attention and yes, 6 spds are becoming very hard to find (maybe impossible now) for reasonable money . I'm still years away from getting one so at that point, probably wont be realistic they will be so rare. But I have an e46 M3 so life is ok .

[Sharocks]

Nope. Sorry man but LS swap anything would be hot garbage compared to a GT3. LS line of engines are complete trash in this company. 200 year old design, low hp/liter, slow revving, low redline, not pushing any limits in design or ingenuity the list is endless. Hot swampy garbage.

That's why some factory LS cars are in that list.

But if you didn't know, GT3's don't have bulletproof engines. If you use the car as intended it's not gonna last. Hence why there is such a emphasis on rpm sheets being supplied when selling them. The cost to operate a GT3 is also immense. Damn oil change is over $400 bucks. I know this because I have friends with them. If you only use it as a leisurely vehicle, you're missing the point. If you beat the living shit out of it, you're gonna spend a ton. Name of the game. But a 997 with an LS swap would be rad, saw one down in MD a few years ago.

And while all your points on LS's is correct, you missed, reliable, easy to mod, easy to fix, cheap to run, cheap to replace, can be built NA for stupid power if you know what you're doing etc.

Also a 997 with an LS swap would be a budget build to a degree. Just another option in a sea of automatics.

[Obioban]

The problem for me with LSs is they’re just not dynamically matched to what I like— I like the low torque high revving experience. That’s why I like the e46 M3 and why the non GT3 911s don’t really appeal to me. I find it enjoyable to have to work for the power— adds to the experience. Same reason I don’t want any form of automatic.

... and Porsche running costs are nothing compared for Ferrari. I know a guy who owns three F430s so that hopefully one will be running (not in the shop) at any given time, so he can actually drive the thing. The GT3 is certainly a step up in operating costs, but nothing like that!

plus you lose fcp, going from Porsche to Ferrari 🤣

[r4dr]

It’s only a $400 oil change if you do it at the dealer, you know, just like any other Porsche or high end sports car... It’s drop dead easy to change the oil. And it takes readily available A40 oil like M1 0W-40.

My impression is the Mezger motors are pretty bulletproof, but there are a few known weak points. Coolant pipes need to be pinned/welded, cam bolts backing out, 3.8 clutch rivets coming out. I mean the same can be said about the S54 cars. Everything has a fix, but cost is definitely on another level than our M3s. Then again, the car cost 3x new from the factory. Pay to play.

[Bimmer man]

Surprised the 981 GT4 isn’t mentioned more in this thread. There is a large supply and I’d imagine the prices will start coming down soon.