Pricing Help: '05 ZCP IB / M-Texture, SMG, 50K, Stripper

[dr_011]

You can count me as another. Good thing we don't need to pay a premium for SMG. 😃

There are SMG enthusiasts out there, I know of at least one, myself. I think it is the 'right' transmission for the E46 M3 (just look at the CSL) and offers a better driving experience after the learning curve. The 6MT is below average, clunky, long throws, heavy clutch - not worth the hype, and contemporary DCT offerings are not nearly as engaging. I'll pay a premium for SMG, but at this point I am a collector and only looking for a very specific car. In a decade, as the E46 M3 becomes a true collector car especially the partially done conversions with the SMG gauge cluster are going to be looked at as tragedies of this particular point in the models' history.

[bmw]

I would happily pay 35K for that spec (although not my favorite, I've always wanted an Interlagos ZCP) if the car had none of the issues you describe. As above, I'm probably one of the few, but prefer SMG and willing to pay for it.

Several of the issues (sagging headliner, wearing rubber trim, plasti-dipped parts) point to less than responsible previous ownership, and likely not garaged for its entire life.

The list of things to fix is long and some are expensive. There is $10,000 in parts, labor, and time in your list.

Car is probably fairly priced at 25K in as-is condition for someone that wants SMG. Maybe a bit less for someone would buy it to do a swap or as a compromise.

[Rkymtnrider]

You can count me as another. Good thing we don't need to pay a premium for SMG. 😃

Me too. Im in my 40s and my m3 is the first car w/o a 3rd pedal. I absolutely love the smg. Always drive it like a manual and never experienced the choppy shifting others complain about.

[Duck360198]

There are SMG enthusiasts out there, I know of at least one, myself. I think it is the 'right' transmission for the E46 M3 (just look at the CSL) and offers a better driving experience after the learning curve. The 6MT is below average, clunky, long throws, heavy clutch - not worth the hype, and contemporary DCT offerings are not nearly as engaging. I'll pay a premium for SMG, but at this point I am a collector and only looking for a very specific car. In a decade, as the E46 M3 becomes a true collector car especially the partially done conversions with the SMG gauge cluster are going to be looked at as tragedies of this particular point in the models' history.

I 100% agree with everything you have said. Personally, I love SMG and I get far more enjoyment out of it than a manual. But I do have to admit, I suck at driving manuals. But how you described the 6MT experience is exactly what I've experienced in the E46 M3 and feel the exact same about DCT. I'd pay a premium for an SMG car as well but it's funny how the premium of an SMG car is still considerably less than its 6MT counterpart.

Out of curiosity, what is your specific car you're looking?

[Duck360198]

I guess I am going to go against the grain here, but I am hesitant to spend time/money on a car I am about to sell. Yeah it may pay off to clean up some of the cosmetics a bit, but that takes time and it sounds like you are done with the car.

I sold one car on BAT and I had it in my mind that it had to be perfect. The result was not what I hoped for. I accepted a reserve that was on the low end, certain that my investment of time and money would pay off. It barely made it past the reserve. Not saying I wouldn't do it again, but I would certainly think hard before making my car "perfect" for a sale.

Sounds like a desirable car to me, even with SMG. I'd wager to say it is easily a $25k car with SMG in it's current form. If I owned that car, I would list it as is on here and maybe on CL/FB for a price that you are comfortable selling it for. If that doesn't get it sold, then maybe BAT?

And this is exactly where I question how to approach this because my mindset when selling a car is that everything should be perfect. But in my most recent sales (including the IB/Platinum), I have found that if you're straightforward and forthcoming with everything you know about a vehicle that tends to help with discussions as well. I'm "done" but only because I have found another car. Not because I'm upset at the list of items that need replacing or because I HAVE to get rid of the car. I actually enjoy the process of correcting items or putting things back to stock. It's not as fun as modding though. Ha!

The rare spec is pretty cool and it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world to hold onto it. But yes, I'd much rather get rid of it sooner rather than later. What were the specs of the car you sold? Was it an SMG car?

[Duck360198]

I would happily pay 35K for that spec (although not my favorite, I've always wanted an Interlagos ZCP) if the car had none of the issues you describe. As above, I'm probably one of the few, but prefer SMG and willing to pay for it.

Several of the issues (sagging headliner, wearing rubber trim, plasti-dipped parts) point to less than responsible previous ownership, and likely not garaged for its entire life.

The list of things to fix is long and some are expensive. There is $10,000 in parts, labor, and time in your list.

Car is probably fairly priced at 25K in as-is condition for someone that wants SMG. Maybe a bit less for someone would buy it to do a swap or as a compromise.

I agree. And I don't know how long it was in FL, but that environment can be brutal on cars. Yeah, the list is long and some parts are expensive, but what it doesn't take into account is the fact you can still sell the used parts to recoup some cash. It may be pennies on the dollar but every little bit helps. And of course it takes time so it would be better not to deal with it. I will have to double check my list but I was definitely below $10K all-in. Replacement items + the rarity of the car/spec + mileage, $25K-$28K seems to be a fair number all things considered.

[Duck360198]

Well look you guys, if you know anyone who may be interested in purchasing as-is you can certainly send them my way. I'm happy to have discussions with anyone about the car. I appreciate all the insight on this and it's good to know it seems like we're on the same page. If someone wants a jump start before I post an ad I'll be here. I'm not sure when I'll get to an ad anyway.

[lcrain]

And this is exactly where I question how to approach this because my mindset when selling a car is that everything should be perfect. But in my most recent sales (including the IB/Platinum), I have found that if you're straightforward and forthcoming with everything you know about a vehicle that tends to help with discussions as well. I'm "done" but only because I have found another car. Not because I'm upset at the list of items that need replacing or because I HAVE to get rid of the car. I actually enjoy the process of correcting items or putting things back to stock. It's not as fun as modding though. Ha!

The rare spec is pretty cool and it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world to hold onto it. But yes, I'd much rather get rid of it sooner rather than later. What were the specs of the car you sold? Was it an SMG car?

The car I sold on BAT was actually an e36 m3. Estoril/dove m3/4/5 slicktop. I thought for sure it was going to sell for more than it did and I ended up in the red after all the work I did to it to try to make it as appealing and turn-key as I thought I could.

For me it boils down to how much TIME I am willing to invest in a car to make it more appealing. If we are talking about a weekend and a few thousand to get $10k more, that is a no brainer. But you just never know.

People looking for an IB/m-texture e46 m3 know they are looking for a needle in a haystack and probably willing to accept a car that is a bit rough around the edges to get the combination they have their heart set on. So, again if it were me, I would test the market as is. Worst case scenario is you get no bites or a lot of people complaining about the details that aren't perfect. You can always then pull the sale, get it shaped up and try again.

[bmw]

Out of curiosity, what is your specific car you're looking?

Low mileage/1 owner/garaged Imola SMG, basically the BMW press car from the early 2000s posters
Maybe you remember this car? For me the one that got away -> https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/f...3-coupe/755862
It was listed on M3F for sale a few years back, but the seller raised too many red flags for my comfort. The car was not titled and he (despite working at a BMW dealership) would not allow a PPI or even roll the car onto a lift for inspection. At the then $27,000 asking price I should have taken the risk. Oh well, but I haven't seen one like it since.

[lapoune]

IB/M-Texture: 39 SMG / 28 6MT

Kind of unrelated but are there really this few? I bought one (salvage) a little while ago to s85 swap but didn't think they were that rare. Where did you find this info if you don't mind? Found a couple online databases and from other threads but they all seemed a bit wonky/unreliable. Especially curious in the number of m-alcantara out there.

[kermmmit7]

Low mileage/1 owner/garaged Imola SMG, basically the BMW press car from the early 2000s posters
Maybe you remember this car? For me the one that got away -> https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/f...3-coupe/755862
It was listed on M3F for sale a few years back, but the seller raised too many red flags for my comfort. The car was not titled and he (despite working at a BMW dealership) would not allow a PPI or even roll the car onto a lift for inspection. At the then $27,000 asking price I should have taken the risk. Oh well, but I haven't seen one like it since.

Damn , nice example- so clean !

[TexaZ3]

I'd say it is a $25-to-$28K car as is. Without vanos, bearings, and subframe fixes, its just hard to justify buying an SMG car knowing you still need to put another ~$7-8k to fix those on top for more than that. And possibly sort SMG issues (if they surface) later.
IB ZCP is good, slicktop/cloth and low miles - very good, but sounds like it needs some cosmetic work in addition to addressing the "big 3" and that limits its ceiling.

[Duck360198]

For me it boils down to how much TIME I am willing to invest in a car to make it more appealing. If we are talking about a weekend and a few thousand to get $10k more, that is a no brainer. But you just never know.

People looking for an IB/m-texture e46 m3 know they are looking for a needle in a haystack and probably willing to accept a car that is a bit rough around the edges to get the combination they have their heart set on. So, again if it were me, I would test the market as is. Worst case scenario is you get no bites or a lot of people complaining about the details that aren't perfect. You can always then pull the sale, get it shaped up and try again.

I think this is exactly right and a great way of approaching it. There are several platforms to try it out on as well so that helps. Maybe the price can start off higher and negotiate from there. But I feel if all items are taken care of, it can push the car into the low to potentially mid $30s. Again, not sure what the SMG effect is but with the spec it may have to sit a bit for the right person to come along.

[Duck360198]

Low mileage/1 owner/garaged Imola SMG, basically the BMW press car from the early 2000s posters
Maybe you remember this car? For me the one that got away -> https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/f...3-coupe/755862
It was listed on M3F for sale a few years back, but the seller raised too many red flags for my comfort. The car was not titled and he (despite working at a BMW dealership) would not allow a PPI or even roll the car onto a lift for inspection. At the then $27,000 asking price I should have taken the risk. Oh well, but I haven't seen one like it since.

My goodness! That is spectacular! We all have one that “got away.” Certainly sounds like the seller wasn’t doing you any favors though. Good lord.

[Inizes]

Kind of unrelated but are there really this few? I bought one (salvage) a little while ago to s85 swap but didn't think they were that rare. Where did you find this info if you don't mind? Found a couple online databases and from other threads but they all seemed a bit wonky/unreliable. Especially curious in the number of m-alcantara out there.

I sent Duck a pm about the quantity this morning. I know it’s pretty rare on the E39 platform with a number close to 40 total since it was Canadian market only. Since the US could get the M-Texture the number is higher, but by how much?