Wheel stud kit on order ... now worried about them breaking on the track?

[Maxhouse97]

So I was fat, dumb and happy after getting a great Black Friday deal on an Apex stud kit when a ran across a post (different forum) complaining about how their Apex studs broke after a track day. After some more research, and some nightmare stories around wheels coming off on track and stuffing cars into barriers, I am thoroughly concerned. I read that MSI studs (although expensive), are much better. But then I got onto their site and starting reading about the fact that they recommend pressed in studs with flange/head in the hub (which requires hub machining) and even hub mods to accommodate 14 mm studs as opposed to stock 12 mm. Now I am thoroughly confused.

I’m trying to find the right balance between robustness and cost/convenience - I will probably track my car 3-4 times a year max. But I’d rather spend $300 now on MSI studs and not have to replace them every year. What would you recommend:

- Stick with stock bolts - haven’t heard of these breaking
- Use the Apex studs on the way, they will be ok
- Spend for the MSI studs
- Go full bore on hub matching to accept pressed in studs or even 14 mm conversion

[eacmen]

Are you doing hot pit tire changes? If so then spend the money on a quality stud.

If you're just doing hpde with cold tire changes the apex studs should be okay but I would plan to swap them out every two years if occasional track use, or annually if lots of track use.

Important part of many studs kits are the nuts used since they have dry lube on the seat. This is why many stud kits recommend a lower torque spec than factory. So pay attention to that.

Remember check your lug nut torque before each session. Before second session of a weekend my lugs usually need a snug up but then i'm good for the weekend.


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[bigjae46]

I've had every brand of stud - BW, turner, Vorshlag. Never had an issue until I got the Apex studs. Had one break when I was torquing a wheel.

I can't say the Apex studs suck...just don't want to risk an issue when I've never had a problem with the others.

[eacmen]

I've had every brand of stud - BW, turner, Vorshlag. Never had an issue until I got the Apex studs. Had one break when I was torquing a wheel.

I can't say the Apex studs suck...just don't want to risk an issue when I've never had a problem with the others.

Wow, I would think people who primarily make wheels should know how to make a stud...

How old were the studs when it broke?

Might have to retract my previous post. I've never owned apex studs (though I believe the previous owner used them and I swapped them out).


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[bigjae46]

They were about 1-2 months old?


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[Estoril]

Studs are wear items and need to be treated as that. Some people ride it out indefinitely waiting for something. I assume stud failure... <shrug>

I went with MSI on my track M3. I do ~12 weekends/year and I don't need to be thinking about my studs while I'm driving.

I think the key with studs is to lay off using an impact wrench and not letting shop people beat on your studs to an unknown torque. A lot of people ignore this - and the shops don't care. You/they can beat the crap out of studs.
Of course also always torque to spec and don't check torque hot.

Some people are constantly torque-checking throughout the day at the track. I have come to understand that is a poor habit.

Less so - ask yourself when you last had your torque wrench calibrated.

Viewed very closely (I was there), the studs on the E93 M3 had micro cracks on most of the failed studs that had rust slowly developing inside the studs. The owner had all brake and tire work done in shops and seldom worked them himself. I don't see any explanation other than impact wrenches beating on them to unknown torque.

[timmo]

Have had ECS Tuning studs on my car for the past 10,000 km, 10+ autox's, and 4 or 5 track days. I bought them before FCP started stocking Motorsport Hardware wheel studs, and I just bought a set and will be making use of the FCP warranty every other year from now on.

[bigjae46]

I torque my studs at home with a 1/2” Snap On Techangle Digital torque wrench. It doesn’t take much, maybe 1/8 of a turn, to go from 85 ft/lbs to 100 ft/lbs. If you’re leaning on or yanking on a clicker torque wrench, you’re way over the setting. The more leverage you have, the easier it is.

I’d recommend a 3/8” torque wrench which will require a lot more effort to significantly exceed the setting.

I think 90% of the people I see torquing fasteners are at least 15% over spec.


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[Rich022]

I’ve had Apex fail on me also. And I was the only ‘mechanic’ wrenching in them. Failure from stress cycles and spacers imo...Switched to MSI and no issues so far. Since Nov ‘18.

[dl.m3]

Never understood the point of studs, no reason to run them on a track car and taking the risk. Especially if your reason is "it's easier to put on my wheels", with some practice it's not that hard, even with spacers. Or use a wheel hanger?

[eacmen]

Never understood the point of studs, no reason to run them on a track car and taking the risk. Especially if your reason is "it's easier to put on my wheels", with some practice it's not that hard, even with spacers. Or use a wheel hanger?

Even with wheel hangers I find studs much easier to work with.

You can also change spacer width without new bolts.

IMO bolts should also be changed on an interval if doing frequent or hot tire changes.

For a mostly street car that has one set of wheels/tires I completely agree. But if you're swapping wheels with different offsets/size on a frequent basis then there is a good argument to be made for using studs.

When the hubs need to be replaced I plan to swap them out with ones using press in studs.


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[BigRussia]

Never understood the point of studs, no reason to run them on a track car and taking the risk. Especially if your reason is "it's easier to put on my wheels", with some practice it's not that hard, even with spacers. Or use a wheel hanger?

Well if you have multiple sets of wheels and use multiple different sized spacers it's alot better than keeping track of a bunch of different length lug bolts sets for each setup.

My car actually came with Apex 90mm hex nose studs and I've done about 5-6 track days and an autox on them, and multiple wheel swaps. No issues so far but I've also always done my own torquing and never exceeding 88lb/ft, and no hot swaps since I drive to the track with my track wheels.

This thread is making me thinking of replacing them now, sounds like Motorsport Hardware is a good option? I just bought a set of their lug nuts for BF, should've grabbed a set of studs too d'oh

[Inizes]

Ugh I hate how these threads always make me second guess purchases. I just bought apex studs. No plans to track the car, just spirited back roads for maybe 4-5k miles a year. Think I’ll stick with them since I shouldn’t have any crazy forces on the studs. I guess Ill need to inspect them every spring.

[BigRussia]

Ugh I hate how these threads always make me second guess purchases. I just bought apex studs. No plans to track the car, just spirited back roads for maybe 4-5k miles a year. Think I’ll stick with them since I shouldn’t have any crazy forces on the studs. I guess Ill need to inspect them every spring.

You'll be fine, look at my post above yours. My car came with the Apex 90mm and Ive done multiple track days and wheel swaps no issues, not even counting how many miles the previous owner mustve put on them driving the car before.

But to be safe I am now looking at the Motorsport Hardware 90mm stud kit, only as a preventative since I do track my car and run wide (12mm) spacers.

[zivagolee]

I also haven’t had much issues with the Apex studs (75mm) and I do around 12 track days a year with multiple wheel changes/swaps ie. change out brake pads at home, swap wheels at the track.

I do replace them yearly as a preventative measure. Didn’t know MSH was on FCP so that makes replacements nicer!