Temp gauge needle sits high, how to reset?

[BigRussia]

Since I've owned my E46 the coolant temp gauge on the cluster has always sat a little high normally. Instead of normal at the 12 o'clock noon positions like most E46 M3s, mine would always sit just slightly to the right at normal operating. Ive been used to it and know the car is actually not running hot, but lately its been bugging me. The previous owner who I bought the car from was very straight forward and had told me about the issue, he claimed he messed up the needle's position while he was doing the MDM LED retrofit on the cluster.

So wanted to know how I can get the needle to its proper position again? As you can see at rest w/ the car off the needle sits in the blue square, rather than the white bottom line. Can I take apart the cluster and just manually move the needle back to the bottom line by hand? If possible can you guys let me know where your coolant needle sits at rest/car off?

[PetrolM3]

You can remove the needle (carefully as to not scratch anything) and re-install it in desired position. When re-installing, make sure to put some sort of a temporary spacer underneath as otherwise, it'll go too far down and not be able to move freely (I did this with a cluster on my non-M and my needles were basically stuck until I re-installed them using spacers).

[Mr.wReckless]

With the caveat that all that follows is from memory as I did this about a year ago:

It’s a simple fix, lower and set your steering wheel as far back as possible, then remove the 2 top torx screws and remove the cluster. There are only 2 large connectors at the back with quick fit connections.

Then you separate the 2 cluster halves, there are some screws at the back, can’t remember if there are any clips too but it’s fairly straight forward, and you could always use google and YouTube for help.

With the 2 halves separated you now have access to the front part and can simply pull the needle off of the motors axle either using an interior removal tool or a fork, gently pry away at the black hub rather than the needle, be careful!! Once you get it off, simply spin the now empty axle ccw as far as possible (It’s probably already at the bottom of its travel and it doesn’t take much force to spin it).

You’d do well to take a before picture for reference to try and get a gauge at where the needle ought to sit. A useful tip is when pressing the needle onto the axle, if you’re extra gentle, it presses on in 2 stages so you can engage the first stage and spin the needle ccw to ensure the motor axle definitely is at its bottom range and the needle hub will then just spin on the axle, once you’re happy with the needle position compared to the cluster indication, press again to seat it properly.

I only did this once when I swapped over from a US cluster board to a Euro one, I had all my needles off and it’s not difficult or complicated, just be careful with the prying and pressing of the needles. I can be quite hamfisted and still managed to do this without breaking anything.

Good luck

[BigRussia]

With the caveat that all that follows is from memory as I did this about a year ago:

It’s a simple fix, lower and set your steering wheel as far back as possible, then remove the 2 top torx screws and remove the cluster. There are only 2 large connectors at the back with quick fit connections.

Then you separate the 2 cluster halves, there are some screws at the back, can’t remember if there are any clips too but it’s fairly straight forward, and you could always use google and YouTube for help.

With the 2 halves separated you now have access to the front part and can simply pull the needle off of the motors axle either using an interior removal tool or a fork, gently pry away at the black hub rather than the needle, be careful!! Once you get it off, simply spin the now empty axle ccw as far as possible (It’s probably already at the bottom of its travel and it doesn’t take much force to spin it).

You’d do well to take a before picture for reference to try and get a gauge at where the needle ought to sit. A useful tip is when pressing the needle onto the axle, if you’re extra gentle, it presses on in 2 stages so you can engage the first stage and spin the needle ccw to ensure the motor axle definitely is at its bottom range and the needle hub will then just spin on the axle, once you’re happy with the needle position compared to the cluster indication, press again to seat it properly.

I only did this once when I swapped over from a US cluster board to a Euro one, I had all my needles off and it’s not difficult or complicated, just be careful with the prying and pressing of the needles. I can be quite hamfisted and still managed to do this without breaking anything.

Good luck

Thanks for the informative post!

So if I'm imagining correctly the needle hub and the axle dont have a flat part that keeps the needle hub from free spinning on the axle? The needle hub basically sticks on the axle with only friction? My initial thought was the axle wasnt in the lowest setting and i needed to wind that down (from the previous owner maybe accidentally hitting the needle with his hand and moving the needle and axle), but now with how you described it could be just the needle itself that might be just too high on the axle (since there isn't a flat spot that keeps it locked in position with the axle)?

[Mr.wReckless]

Thanks for the informative post! So if I'm imagining correctly the needle hub and the axle dont have a flat part that keeps the needle hub from free spinning on the axle? The needle hub basically sticks on the axle with only friction? My initial thought was the axle wasnt in the lowest setting and i needed to wind that down (from the previous owner maybe accidentally hitting the needle with his hand and moving the needle and axle), but now with how you described it could be just the needle itself that might be just too high on the axle (since there isn't a flat spot that keeps it locked in position with the axle)?

I can’t quite remember what engages the needle to the axle tbh. When I wrote the post I wanted to write that they have cog teeth but as soon as I thought hat thought I couldn’t quite remember that bit specifically. It’s not critical and also I didn’t want to over complicate my post...

Either way, be it cog teeth, friction or a flat key the method of resetting is the same. Tbh I would thought it to either be cog teeth or friction rather than your flat key as with the 2 former you have multiple points of engaging and locking the needle to the axle, but with the flat key the needle will only sit locked in 1 spot. You’ll find out what locks the needle to the axle when you diy and you can update us here.

The main point is to ensure the motor axle is at the start of its travel, which you do by always spinning ccw, the next is correct indication of your needle by pressing it on when it also is at your preferred ‘bottom’ or ‘minimum’ reading. I’m sure you can google images for a cluster to try and see where the needle rests ‘at 0’

Regards

[Mr.wReckless]

And on 2nd thought, it could of course be as you suggest that the PO didn’t quite bottom out the axle, but you’ll find out. But what I do remember from my research when I did his was that the main objective is to always spin ccw and to make sure the axle is at bottom travel before pressing on the needle. You can always redo it if you’re not happy

Regards

[BigRussia]

And on 2nd thought, it could of course be as you suggest that the PO didn’t quite bottom out the axle, but you’ll find out. But what I do remember from my research when I did his was that the main objective is to always spin ccw and to make sure the axle is at bottom travel before pressing on the needle. You can always redo it if you’re not happy

Regards

Got it! Makes sense, I'm going to to try and tackle this today and will confirm what method is used to attach the needle hub to axle.

I looked online for references of the needles at rest and am going to use this photo from ECStuning of a brand new cluster. The coolant temp needle rests right at the white line on the brand new one, and looking at its tach Im thinking my tach may be a little on the high side as well! Can anyone take a quick pic of how their needles sit at rest? Just to confirm before I mess with the needles.

[Slideways]

I would not recommend using a pry tool. Simply grab the base of the needle and rotate counterclockwise while gently pulling upward. I posted pictures of the bottom out points. They are slightly below the white lines and it looks like your RPM needle is off as well. Once you power the cluster, the needles will move up 1mm or 2mm to their final position. It might take a few tries to get them in the right spot. When you go to reinstall the needles, you also have to be cautious of how high they snap into place. If the base is rubbing against the overlay, you need to rotate them counterclockwise and pull them up enough to leave some spacing where the backlight can bleed through the base. It is tricky and takes a few attempts to get the right spacing and stop point. I would say get the spacing right first, then set the needle motor to its bottom out point. Here is a video of how to remove the needles correctly:

Before moving to bottom out position (unopened cluster):






After moving to bottom out position:

[heinzboehmer]

This is a great guide for taking apart the cluster. It's for a non-M, but I think they're pretty much identical.

https://forums.autolanka.com/topic/1...cement-coding/

+1 to using the counter clockwise while pulling up method. Adding the paper underneath isn't a bad idea either.

[BigRussia]

I would not recommend using a pry tool. Simply grab the base of the needle and rotate counterclockwise while gently pulling upward. I posted pictures of the bottom out points. They are slightly below the white lines and it looks like your RPM needle is off as well. Once you power the cluster, the needles will move up 1mm or 2mm to their final position. It might take a few tries to get them in the right spot. When you go to reinstall the needles, you also have to be cautious of how high they snap into place. If the base is rubbing against the overlay, you need to rotate them counterclockwise and pull them up enough to leave some spacing where the backlight can bleed through the base. It is tricky and takes a few attempts to get the right spacing and stop point. I would say get the spacing right first, then set the needle motor to its bottom out point. Here is a video of how to remove the needles correctly:

Dude thank you for those detailed pics! It was just what I need to trail and error and fine tune the needles to exactly where they needed to be! Also the tip about the needles moving 1-2mm after the cluster is powered, that was critical for getting it just right, I would've been so confused if I didn't know that as its hard to see it with your eyes.

So yeah the needles are indeed just friction fit onto the tiny metal axles. No need for pry tools either, i was able to pull up the needles with just my fingers both using the twist method in the videos and just yanking straight up. It took me 3 attempts of putting the cluster back in the car and test driving to finally set the needles to the perfect spot. On my 2rd try I moved the needles too far into the resistance and both the coolant and tach read too low. So before removing them to adjust again I marked where they sat with tape, then removed needles, pressed them on just 1-2mm above the mark, and if too high after pressing down then very slowly moved the needle into the resistance. I also adjusted the oil temp needle down, just very slightly to match your pics.

Here are my final positions with the car off, after a test drive where the tach soft limiter hit 8k rpm (2nd gear pull), and coolant right at 12 o'clock the entire drive. The coolant needle is sitting right on the white line now, and tach just under the white line. I didn't really mess w/ the speedo or fuel, I didn't remove the speedo needle but nudged it into the resistance to make it slightly lower to match you pic since it reads way too high already. Very happy I finally got this sorted, and thanks for everyones help. Hopefully this thread can help someone else in the future.

[sapote]

+1 to using the counter clockwise while pulling up method. Adding the paper underneath isn't a bad idea either.

I'm not quite clear about why the need to turn the needle CW while pulling up, as the needle has no threads to unscrew? Why not just pull it straight up?
I work on many mechanical watches and the good way to protect the needle and the face of the dial is to lay a plastic sheet over the needle, then get the finger nails under the base of the needle (with the plastic sheet) and pull up. The soft plastic sheet protect the dial face from the finger nail or tool.

Have fun working on wrist watches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sukKH_S4gig&t=102s

[heinzboehmer]

Point of rotating is to bottom out the servos so they're not spinning while you're pulling up. Guess you could rotate clockwise too if you wanted, doesn't really matter as long as the servo is at either end of its travel

[0-60motorsports]

Does anyone know if resetting the cluster deletes any CSL coding. Thank you.