S54 Vanos post Beisan/DV Rebuild Timing Issue

[sapote]

Thank you kindly Everyone

There are a lot of different way to do this

I tried sapote method, was unsure how far back to install splines,


So i installed the vanos the way dirtydans did it in his part 4 video 37min30seconds

1. attached splines to vanos
2. pushed pistons in vanos back all the way
3. left all hub bolts loose
4. set up vanos with spines attached into pre marked sweet spots on splines
5. pushed vanos in completely, all in 1 push with oil pump aligned straight to the head
6. tightened vanos to head with 5 bolts
7. tightened 4 hub bolts on each intake and exhaust
8. removed vanos
9. torqued all hub bolts to 14nm
10 reintalled vanos

The above steps can cause timing error, as the pre-tension the two hub bolts is missing.





"I tried sapote method, was unsure how far back to install splines,"

I clearly said insert the shafts in about 5mm into the hubs here.

I wrote: " The timing: turn both hubs full CW, then insert the splined shafts into the hubs and if needed, turn the hub not more than 1 tooth to align the splines to get the shaft inserted in about 5mm. " Although I forgot to write pretension the 2 hub bolts at this step.

[bmwfnatic]

Like slideways said, if you pull the caps now and they are both at the end of the beveled edge, then timing is good and move on.

[Slideways]

Thank you kindly Everyone

There are a lot of different way to do this

I tried sapote method, was unsure how far back to install splines,


So i installed the vanos the way dirtydans did it in his part 4 video 37min30seconds

1. attached splines to vanos
2. pushed pistons in vanos back all the way
3. left all hub bolts loose
4. set up vanos with spines attached into pre marked sweet spots on splines
5. pushed vanos in completely, all in 1 push with oil pump aligned straight to the head
6. tightened vanos to head with 5 bolts
7. tightened 4 hub bolts on each intake and exhaust
8. removed vanos
9. torqued all hub bolts to 14nm
10 reintalled vanos

turned the engine by hand twice and engine returned TDC with cam tool perfectly

Now how do i check the vanos is timed correct ?

thanks again for helping

NB >>

Turning the engine after vanos install, to check cams are at TDC, does not mean vanos is set correctly, Please have a look here - VANOS INSTALL INCORRECT

NB2...


Solenoid pack and block are not installed when checking cams are TDC after motor rotation

You pushed the pistons all they way back into the VANOS unit in step 2 before tightening the hubs, so the VANOS should be properly timed. One can verify the piston position by pulling off the pistons caps, but it is not necessary when following the Beisan instructions.

[BL92]

Thank you kindly Everyone

There are a lot of different way to do this

I tried sapote method, was unsure how far back to install splines,


So i installed the vanos the way dirtydans did it in his part 4 video 37min30seconds

1. attached splines to vanos
2. pushed pistons in vanos back all the way
3. left all hub bolts loose
4. set up vanos with spines attached into pre marked sweet spots on splines
5. pushed vanos in completely, all in 1 push with oil pump aligned straight to the head
6. tightened vanos to head with 5 bolts
7. tightened 4 hub bolts on each intake and exhaust
8. removed vanos
9. torqued all hub bolts to 14nm
10 reintalled vanos

turned the engine by hand twice and engine returned TDC with cam tool perfectly

Now how do i check the vanos is timed correct ?

thanks again for helping

NB >>

Turning the engine after vanos install, to check cams are at TDC, does not mean vanos is set correctly, Please have a look here - VANOS INSTALL INCORRECT

NB2...


Solenoid pack and block are not installed when checking cams are TDC after motor rotation

[sapote]

“4. The timing: turn both hubs full CCW, then insert the splined shafts into the hubs and if needed, turn the hub not more than 1 tooth to align the splines to get the shaft inserted in about 5mm”

A typo, it should read full CW, not ccw. I will edit the original post.

[BL92]

Thank you for replying, I will go with Sapote method

[sapote]

Anyone used this method.?

Fast forward to 37min 30seconds

https://youtu.be/iDQEaRzFoTg?si=t70nPPwDaM0nmhu8

1. The hole on the hubs don't have to be aligned to anything nor to the vertical top posiiton, and these holes can be anywhere as they have nothing to do with vanos timing.
2. No need to mark on hub and splined shape for indexing, or the need to find the sweet tooth.
3. I don't like the method of bolting the splined shafts to the vanos pistons before inserting the shafts into the hubs, as it's more difficult to pre-tension the hub bolts and inserting the shaft into the hubs. The easier way is to insert the shafts into the hubs first, pre-tension the bolts, then bolt the pistons to the shafts later.
4. The timing: turn both hubs full CW, then insert the splined shafts into the hubs and if needed, turn the hub not more than 1 tooth to align the splines to get the shaft inserted in about 5mm.
Edited: pretension the two hub bolts for each hub.
5. Mount the vanos with gasket (with the solenoid plate removed) on the head with about 10mm gap in between or more, bolting the shafts and pistons together, then evenly tightening the vanos bolts to pull it into the head fully. This set the final timing. Now try to tighten all the hub bolts down. To torque these hub bolts to spec using standard wrench, then disconnect the pistons off the shafts, remove the vanos, and torque the hub bolts to spec. Install the vanos and finish all the bolts. Rotate the crank 4 turns or so and verify the cams timing.

[ac427]

Does anyone have an alternative i can whip up in lieu of BMW Genuine 119 170 Vanos Spacers

I don't think i can them out here to Australia in the next hour or so

Here you go 83 30 0 493 838

[Keith_MN]

Anyone used this method.?

Fast forward to 37min 30seconds

https://youtu.be/iDQEaRzFoTg?si=t70nPPwDaM0nmhu8

I didn't watch the whole video but that clip looks like the same steps I took for reassembly. I marked my splines and otherwise followed Beisan's procedure.

[BL92]

Anyone used this method.?

Fast forward to 37min 30seconds

https://youtu.be/iDQEaRzFoTg?si=t70nPPwDaM0nmhu8

[sapote]

Does anyone have an alternative i can whip up in lieu of BMW Genuine 119 170 Vanos Spacers

I don't think i can them out here to Australia in the next hour or so

Not needed; just eyeball the gap around 10mm is fine, then pretension the hubs bolts, then moving the vanos to the head torque it down, then tighten down the hubs bolts.

[eacmen]

Does anyone have an alternative i can whip up in lieu of BMW Genuine 119 170 Vanos Spacers

I don't think i can them out here to Australia in the next hour or so

You just need to make sure vanos is 5mm from the head. Just use a set of calipers.

Around 2 minutes into this video:

https://youtu.be/DxUwd4aTWzw

[BL92]

Does anyone have an alternative i can whip up in lieu of BMW Genuine 119 170 Vanos Spacers

I don't think i can them out here to Australia in the next hour or so

[OldRanger]

Why are you removing the VANOS again? It sounds like you did it correctly in your previous post. It is most likely slack in the chain causing the timing to go out a hair after turning the crank back to TDC. To satisfy the OCD, all it takes is nudging the cam with the 24mm wrench to get the pins to slide through perfectly as they did with the VANOS off. We are probably talking about less than a degree as that BMW timing tool is very precise. Even if you turn the engine over again to TDC a third time, the cam pins still might not slide in perfectly smooth.

I decided not to take the VANOS off. But I did rework the timing procedure a second time in order to ensure I had properly torqued the hub bolts. When complete, I checked timing and still the cams were slightly off - a little behind the crankshaft from perfect. Maybe 1-2 degrees. I watched closely what the sprockets, timing chain, and splined shafts were 'doing' when I fiddled (rotated) the camshaft with the 24mm wrench. I considered the explanations from contributors on this forum. I decided I was good to go and ready for a test drive.

• I completed reassembly.
• I did not reset VANOS Adaptations.
• I did not test VANOS.
• I cranked the car and let it idle. The only odd sound I heard occurred within seconds and was a singular high pitched clunk...presumably part of the process of purging air out of the VANOS.
• I warmed the car to temp and took a 5 mile drive.
• No codes.
• Car has improved 'return to idle'. Seems like it might pull a bit stronger in high revs.

Conclusion: these minor issues we see timing our 20 year old engines is all due to ever so slightly worn camshaft sprockets and chain. Others have written this, and I concur. In retrospect:

Performing a timing procedure that is intended for an engine withOUT any appreciable wear...on an engine with almost 170K miles...and expecting the results appropriate for a low mileage engine is a silly notion.

Thanks for sharing your ideas everyone!

[sapote]

1. In retrospect, turning the crank slowly is one of things I could have done better, and I was a bit careless the first few times I checked timing. While the Beisan instructions imply this, it didn’t sink in for me that the precision of your timing check can be affected.

2. In the instructions from Beisan website that precede the hub bolt tightening sequence - this statement is included: “Turning crankshaft counter clockwise is acceptable.“
I disagree with that after watching how it affected the relative position of the TDC mark in comparison to the cams.

1. Turn CW fast if you want, but slow down when about 1" to TDC.

2. Read through this and see it is better for you:

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/main-forum/e46-2001-2006/78519-why-use-a-method-that-you-can-t-torque-the-vanos-hub-bolts-to-spec