S54 Vanos post Beisan/DV Rebuild Timing Issue

[ac427]

Just for reference the later Torx bolts are made of the same material as the original bolts.

The E36 M3 bolts are made of stainless steel with a higher tensile rating.

[Ramage]

I pulled my Vanos out yesterday to check on my cam bolts.

Back in 2013, I replaced all the original cam bolts with the new T30 bolts while also applying blue Loctite (non-oil resistant). A few weeks ago, I heard a very faint "Marbles in a Can" sound, so I figured I would inspect the bolts to see if any were loose. The plan was to replace any bolts that were loose and /or replace the non-oil resistant Loctite with Loctite 243.

None of the bolts were loose , but I still used the Loctite 243 for peace of mind.

All of this is to say the timing on these engines does not have to be complicated, but all the different methods add to the confusion.

After struggling to get my engine timed to PERFECTION back in 2013 (so much so that I ended up disconnecting the top and bottom timing in a bonehead move that, luckily, I was able to resolve). I started following the method used in this guide - https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...anos-hub-bolts

In short
1.) Lock the Intake and Exhaust cams using the timing bridge
2.) Install the Intake hub hand-tight so you still have the full range of motion.
3.) Rotate the intake hub all the way clockwise.
4.) Take the Intake spline gear and insert it into the Intake hub - You want to find the spot where the intake hub has to move the least for the spline to go in.
5.) Check the range of motion by moving the spline gear in and out.
6.) Place the Spline gear so the teeth are just visible.
7.) Now torque the Intake hub down using a star pattern.

Step 7 is the part I like about doing it this way. It allows me to torque the bolts down using a standard torque wrench, and since I have the cams locked down with the timing bridge, I do not have to worry about the timing moving while installing the Vanos.

Install the Vanos by sliding the Vanos onto the head using the longer Vanos bolts, line up the pistons with the spline gears, and tighten the spline gear and Vanos pistons using a 7mm and 10mm wrench. Finally, I make sure the Vanos pistons are fully inserted in the Vanos before torquing the Vanos unit down.

Before starting my car, I hook up DIS and go to expert mode where I clear both Vanos adaptations and standard adaptations (No idea if both really need to be cleared, but this is how I do it). I then start the car and take it for a drive, getting everything up to temperature. Once the car is nice and warm and still it feels ok, I run the Vanos test in DIS.

My results from this morning. My Vanos is a little lazy on the reaction time, but the car feels good.

[sapote]

Thank you kindly Everyone

There are a lot of different way to do this

I tried sapote method, was unsure how far back to install splines,


So i installed the vanos the way dirtydans did it in his part 4 video 37min30seconds

1. attached splines to vanos
2. pushed pistons in vanos back all the way
3. left all hub bolts loose
4. set up vanos with spines attached into pre marked sweet spots on splines
5. pushed vanos in completely, all in 1 push with oil pump aligned straight to the head
6. tightened vanos to head with 5 bolts
7. tightened 4 hub bolts on each intake and exhaust
8. removed vanos
9. torqued all hub bolts to 14nm
10 reintalled vanos

The above steps can cause timing error, as the pre-tension the two hub bolts is missing.





"I tried sapote method, was unsure how far back to install splines,"

I clearly said insert the shafts in about 5mm into the hubs here.

I wrote: " The timing: turn both hubs full CW, then insert the splined shafts into the hubs and if needed, turn the hub not more than 1 tooth to align the splines to get the shaft inserted in about 5mm. " Although I forgot to write pretension the 2 hub bolts at this step.

[bmwfnatic]

Like slideways said, if you pull the caps now and they are both at the end of the beveled edge, then timing is good and move on.

[Slideways]

Thank you kindly Everyone

There are a lot of different way to do this

I tried sapote method, was unsure how far back to install splines,


So i installed the vanos the way dirtydans did it in his part 4 video 37min30seconds

1. attached splines to vanos
2. pushed pistons in vanos back all the way
3. left all hub bolts loose
4. set up vanos with spines attached into pre marked sweet spots on splines
5. pushed vanos in completely, all in 1 push with oil pump aligned straight to the head
6. tightened vanos to head with 5 bolts
7. tightened 4 hub bolts on each intake and exhaust
8. removed vanos
9. torqued all hub bolts to 14nm
10 reintalled vanos

turned the engine by hand twice and engine returned TDC with cam tool perfectly

Now how do i check the vanos is timed correct ?

thanks again for helping

NB >>

Turning the engine after vanos install, to check cams are at TDC, does not mean vanos is set correctly, Please have a look here - VANOS INSTALL INCORRECT

NB2...


Solenoid pack and block are not installed when checking cams are TDC after motor rotation

You pushed the pistons all they way back into the VANOS unit in step 2 before tightening the hubs, so the VANOS should be properly timed. One can verify the piston position by pulling off the pistons caps, but it is not necessary when following the Beisan instructions.

[BL92]

Thank you kindly Everyone

There are a lot of different way to do this

I tried sapote method, was unsure how far back to install splines,


So i installed the vanos the way dirtydans did it in his part 4 video 37min30seconds

1. attached splines to vanos
2. pushed pistons in vanos back all the way
3. left all hub bolts loose
4. set up vanos with spines attached into pre marked sweet spots on splines
5. pushed vanos in completely, all in 1 push with oil pump aligned straight to the head
6. tightened vanos to head with 5 bolts
7. tightened 4 hub bolts on each intake and exhaust
8. removed vanos
9. torqued all hub bolts to 14nm
10 reintalled vanos

turned the engine by hand twice and engine returned TDC with cam tool perfectly

Now how do i check the vanos is timed correct ?

thanks again for helping

NB >>

Turning the engine after vanos install, to check cams are at TDC, does not mean vanos is set correctly, Please have a look here - VANOS INSTALL INCORRECT

NB2...


Solenoid pack and block are not installed when checking cams are TDC after motor rotation

[sapote]

“4. The timing: turn both hubs full CCW, then insert the splined shafts into the hubs and if needed, turn the hub not more than 1 tooth to align the splines to get the shaft inserted in about 5mm”

A typo, it should read full CW, not ccw. I will edit the original post.

[BL92]

Thank you for replying, I will go with Sapote method

[sapote]

Anyone used this method.?

Fast forward to 37min 30seconds

https://youtu.be/iDQEaRzFoTg?si=t70nPPwDaM0nmhu8

1. The hole on the hubs don't have to be aligned to anything nor to the vertical top posiiton, and these holes can be anywhere as they have nothing to do with vanos timing.
2. No need to mark on hub and splined shape for indexing, or the need to find the sweet tooth.
3. I don't like the method of bolting the splined shafts to the vanos pistons before inserting the shafts into the hubs, as it's more difficult to pre-tension the hub bolts and inserting the shaft into the hubs. The easier way is to insert the shafts into the hubs first, pre-tension the bolts, then bolt the pistons to the shafts later.
4. The timing: turn both hubs full CW, then insert the splined shafts into the hubs and if needed, turn the hub not more than 1 tooth to align the splines to get the shaft inserted in about 5mm.
Edited: pretension the two hub bolts for each hub.
5. Mount the vanos with gasket (with the solenoid plate removed) on the head with about 10mm gap in between or more, bolting the shafts and pistons together, then evenly tightening the vanos bolts to pull it into the head fully. This set the final timing. Now try to tighten all the hub bolts down. To torque these hub bolts to spec using standard wrench, then disconnect the pistons off the shafts, remove the vanos, and torque the hub bolts to spec. Install the vanos and finish all the bolts. Rotate the crank 4 turns or so and verify the cams timing.

[ac427]

Does anyone have an alternative i can whip up in lieu of BMW Genuine 119 170 Vanos Spacers

I don't think i can them out here to Australia in the next hour or so

Here you go 83 30 0 493 838

[Keith_MN]

Anyone used this method.?

Fast forward to 37min 30seconds

https://youtu.be/iDQEaRzFoTg?si=t70nPPwDaM0nmhu8

I didn't watch the whole video but that clip looks like the same steps I took for reassembly. I marked my splines and otherwise followed Beisan's procedure.

[BL92]

Anyone used this method.?

Fast forward to 37min 30seconds

https://youtu.be/iDQEaRzFoTg?si=t70nPPwDaM0nmhu8

[sapote]

Does anyone have an alternative i can whip up in lieu of BMW Genuine 119 170 Vanos Spacers

I don't think i can them out here to Australia in the next hour or so

Not needed; just eyeball the gap around 10mm is fine, then pretension the hubs bolts, then moving the vanos to the head torque it down, then tighten down the hubs bolts.

[eacmen]

Does anyone have an alternative i can whip up in lieu of BMW Genuine 119 170 Vanos Spacers

I don't think i can them out here to Australia in the next hour or so

You just need to make sure vanos is 5mm from the head. Just use a set of calipers.

Around 2 minutes into this video:

https://youtu.be/DxUwd4aTWzw

[BL92]

Does anyone have an alternative i can whip up in lieu of BMW Genuine 119 170 Vanos Spacers

I don't think i can them out here to Australia in the next hour or so