Black & Tan 332iT

[George Hill]

You should check the mounting/sensors for e60 M5 knuckle. The M5 uses the e9x style sensing and if the knuckle has the same sensor mounting as the non-M5 e60, that’d do it for you. Just use the e60 M5 stuff up front in either knuckle.

Also we could technically weld to this super knuckle to add a saddle clamp and make it MCS compatible… after testing the base design of course.

I assumed (haha, yes I know) that the sensor to bearing design/location would be the same or close enough for either option. But that is a good point about the E6x M cars being an option.

When the time comes I'll cross the MCS bridge if needed, not a total issue right now but I would prefer the SK because it just looks so wild, it'll be fitting on Eileen especially with all the carbon

[Bry5on]

Yes, I've been watching their development and its pretty cool. I like all the features they've built into it (even if they are not ideal for every instance). I look at it like they too Bryson's idea and made it more applicable to scaling and mass adoption. I feel like Bryson's takes what they've done to the next level without any constraints.

For my project I need to run an E9x front wheel bearing but now that I have MCS's I'm stuck in the middle, haha.

Either way Bryson's SK is now waiting on me, I need to get on the lathe and make the ball joint inserts.

You should check the mounting/sensors for e60 M5 knuckle. The M5 uses the e9x style sensing and if the knuckle has the same sensor mounting as the non-M5 e60, that’d do it for you. Just use the e60 M5 stuff up front in either knuckle.

Also we could technically weld to this super knuckle to add a saddle clamp and make it MCS compatible… after testing the base design of course.

[George Hill]

Yes, I've been watching their development and its pretty cool. I like all the features they've built into it (even if they are not ideal for every instance). I look at it like they too Bryson's idea and made it more applicable to scaling and mass adoption. I feel like Bryson's takes what they've done to the next level without any constraints.

For my project I need to run an E9x front wheel bearing but now that I have MCS's I'm stuck in the middle, haha.

Either way Bryson's SK is now waiting on me, I need to get on the lathe and make the ball joint inserts.

[Bry5on]

I've noticed this pattern a few times now - the developments that happen on this forum are certainly watched by others! The more the better IMHO as it all helps drive innovation and options for the community!

I agree, I’m digging this! I like their approach to keeping it a CNC part too. Their version will be compatible with MCS coilovers, which is cool, but at the cost of some negative camber loss in the corners.

George and I are scheming a setup to test the super knuckle and a factory knuckle to failure on an actual chassis, so we’ll be able to quantify the camber loss while we’re at it.

[karter16]

The super knuckle has a CNC machined admirer!

I've noticed this pattern a few times now - the developments that happen on this forum are certainly watched by others! The more the better IMHO as it all helps drive innovation and options for the community!

[Bry5on]

The super knuckle has a CNC machined admirer! Looks like they’re using the same insert strategy too. This one is for 25mm lowered cars (probably most M3s) and claims to correct geometry. Good idea but at 25mm lower it’s probably moving the KPI and scrub radius in order to not impact or be too close to the rotor. I also wonder what the weight is! Using the same e60 wheel bearing & sensor which is pretty heavy. Very cool!

https://www.instagram.com/p/DRGQXmMgftS/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

[3staxontheradio]

Yeah I printed the carrier and a selector rod. All pivot surfaces are delrin, reamed holes, and high tolerance shoulder bolts. Zero slop or play. I did a gs6-37bz conversion on my e36 s54 car and originally I had an off the shelf conversion kit/carrier but the carrier fit really badly with my setup and needed a ton of rubber bushing deflection to even install in the car, and that prevented me from using stiffer carrier bushings. Also the pivot height and giubo clearance made for a super tall shift throw. I don't want to crap up your thread but I have more info here:

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/main-forum/member-build-journals/271587-1997-m3-sedan-with-s54-swap

[Bry5on]

I haven't used them yet. I have used ProtoTI and 3DPNXT also on craftcloud. I started adding a production note asking them to leave 1-2mm of all support interfaces attached so I could grind them off myself. I think these places are pumping out parts and they aren't that careful with post processing. My first shift lever revision the ball was so out of round from being overground I couldn't use it.


This is what it looked like with the support remnants and after I did the removal:

Clever idea to do a shifter. Did you go full ham and put bearings in it? Looks like there’s a grub screw hole there. Did you also print the carrier, and if so did you do the e39 M5 style double grommet trick with the extended bitch clip? Always wondered if that would help the M3 shift quality.

Definitely more printed parts in my future - I really want an excuse to do something from Ti too.

[3staxontheradio]

I haven't used them yet. I have used ProtoTI and 3DPNXT also on craftcloud. I started adding a production note asking them to leave 1-2mm of all support interfaces attached so I could grind them off myself. I think these places are pumping out parts and they aren't that careful with post processing. My first shift lever revision the ball was so out of round from being overground I couldn't use it.


This is what it looked like with the support remnants and after I did the removal:

[Bry5on]

Who did the printing for your uprights? The support removal looks really good and not excessive like I have had on some of my parts.

I used Shenzhen 3D Innovate through Craftcloud. The second article (other side) had a little more excess removal than the first, so I may have to give the bearing surface a grind to make it nice and flat.

On closer inspections the holes didn’t come in under by .2mm, they were holding cylindricity of about .2mm. The ream operation made that clear.

Otherwise they both came out pretty well.

[3staxontheradio]

Who did the printing for your uprights? The support removal looks really good and not excessive like I have had on some of my parts.

[Arclitgold]

Wow this car keeps getting better and better! Nice work and keep it up!

houses are endless sources of… well lots of good and bad! Haha

[Bry5on]

Alright, I had a few free hours this morning and there was an open lift, so here we go!

How it started:


A few minutes later:


And another 30 minutes after that, we're all buttoned up again and ready for a test drive:


This is the F80 driveshaft that EthanolTurbo had modified with e46 M3 flex disc and CV joints. It is exactly 5mm shorter than a factory M3 driveshaft. Because it's shorter, I did not have to unbolt or drop the diff or subframe to install it, as you can see above. This is a tradeoff, as there will be less spline engagement with the driveshaft and CV joint. I think 2-3mm shorter than stock would be the sweet spot if you're not using the telescoping F80 version of the shaft (which is a better solution overall, in my opinion). Install was easy, just like any other driveshaft, only made difficult by the shitty supersprint header joint.

We measured before that this shaft is 80mm OD, versus the 75mm max OD stock shaft, so the math says that this carbon shaft should be much stiffer (bigger diameter, 50% stiffer material, likely also thicker wall) than the original and also bring in some of the inherent damping that carbon weaves have that steel does not. It's also one piece, although I don't think this is likely to have any real noticeable effect from the seat. We measured that it's 3.5lb lighter than the steel part, which I also don't think will be too seat of the pants noticeable, because inertially these math out to be very similar due to the larger OD of the carbon shaft.

Because this shaft is larger OD, it's a very tight fit. This is only suitable for cars with non-raised, solid subframe bushings. My car has *non-raised* & solid subframe bushings with reinforcement plates (4-5mm thick, which helps gain clearance) and I had about 8mm clearance to the transmission tunnel. Any displacement of the subframe/diff under acceleration or due to adding subframe raising solid bushings is likely to put you at risk of hitting the transmission tunnel and disintegrating your driveshaft. Consider this fair warning if you choose to go carbon, and I cannot stress this enough. Carbon does not fail subtly or slowly.

https://youtu.be/umdLZ_PUL_w

Good news, I did not have to make any clearance to my unmodified exhaust heat shield.

So what's the verdict? My initial thoughts say a very minor positive difference versus steel.

First of all, since I'm in San Diego it's easy for me to make a quick trip to Mexico where I tested the car up to 120mph (with stock gearing) and had absolutely no noticeable vibration. I'm sensitive to vibration. Sort of OCD about it. In fact, I'd say that the car is ever so slightly quieter at speed. I was expecting this as it's a common noted difference, so there may be a bit of placebo here.

When I initially took the car for a drive, I was pretty hopeful because I couldn't detect any semblance of the m-clunk. This changed once the car had warmed up. I'd say this was a mild improvement to the clunk (more of a thud now in my car), definitely less of an improvement than the rear end bracing made (my touring cabin X-brace and subframe-v-brace). Any improvement here is welcome, but it's not a magic bullet. Shift & shifter quality is largely the same, just with slightly less of the thud on a hard 1-2 shift.

There is also an improvement during clutch take-up, it just feels smoother and a bit more direct - in the direction of, but not equivalent to, a Porsche. This is maybe the most detectable and biggest difference.

There is no perceptible increase in the car accelerating quicker or revving faster that I can tell. Note that the math also generally agrees with this.

On just one occasion, it did seem that I was able to excite some natural frequency somewhere around 40-50mph under WOT second gear acceleration after a 1-2 shift. It felt similar to a failing CSB, but I wasn't able to reproduce this, so it could have been coming from the road, as I was on a highway onramp in a landfill area.

So overall I'd say this is mostly a smoothness, directness and NVH improvement, in that order. All effects are relatively minor but if you're OCD about NVH and needed a driveshaft balance like me anyway, I'd say go for it. It's an improvement. If you don't need a driveshaft, maybe wait until your next 'while I'm in there' opportunity. If you're debating whether to do this or a chassis stiffening mod first, *definitely* do the chassis stiffening mods first, you'll feel those a lot more.

Hope that's helpful!

[heinzboehmer]

Still struggling for blocks of time - setting up the house is taking priority.

Man, I feel that. It's no fun.

X brace looks great in black though.

[Bry5on]

Still struggling for blocks of time - setting up the house is taking priority.

But I did get a chance to powder coat the rear x-brace, and while it was out I had to drive the car without it for a week, on my regular commute, so I’ve got some reverse observations.
1) the car is smoother on hard impacts without the brace but there’s more after-bump ‘noise’ that’s not generated by the road. Sort of like a ripple after effect.
2) steering precision with the brace is definitely better
3) the m-clunk came right back on removal and turned back to an m-thud on reinstallation. I’m convinced that the clunk is exacerbated by the flexy trunk floor. Constraining it with the combo of the rear x-brace and the subframe-v-brace does the trick, and I think you need both to net the results. This also supports my theory that bracing to the center isofix attach point is necessary.



Next up we’ve got to see if the carbon driveshaft from EthanolTurbo eliminates the rest of the clunk because of the damping effect that carbon has.