Need help doing vanos test with INPA

[maupineda]

You may need to test with ISTA or DIS, it seems you are loosing pressure, which makes the timing drift. Tolerance is 5 deg

As far as I can tell you can loose pressure through…

-seals
-valve body
-pressure regulating valve

or there is low oil pressure in the unit all together

i would recommend to gage the VANOS oil pressure.

but I once suffer from low pressure (40bar v 115bar) and even then I was not drifting timing.

so based on all this, if you can borrow another valve body with regulator valve and test you may at least be able to discard those… I know of a Z4M that would fail VANOS testing precisely due to a bad valve body.

i have one that I may be willing to sell from a 50k car as I renewed mine when trouble shooting my pressure issue ( it was the disk pump)

[nextelbuddy]

They look good. You missed testing leakage

thanks for looking!


yea i dont know why in all my tests, pre vanos work and post. the leakage test just says drift was detected.

never had any codes before and have no codes now.

after reading though this thread and getting a better understanding of what each test means in english. I can now see that my new tests post vanos work are indeed in SPEC however the times in MS are slower for all tests on intake and exhaust compared to my pre vanos work test.

since i only ran the test once on a engine started for the first time after the work and only engine oil heated up to temp by just idling. I am going to run the test a few more times. once after more warm idles and then another after driving the engine hard and see if the numbers get better.

i believe Beisan says in their procedures that you need about 200 miles to break in the new seals so I will also do another test after 200 miles and see if anything changes.


it was my first time doing vanos work so I am pleased that my timing numbers match what they were before the work so that means i didn't mess up the timing which is nice..

the only thing I have not changed now vanos wise is the solenoid. I did perform a proper cleaning of the solenoid valves using magnets and brake cleaner and i got very nice clicks using magnets after everything was cleaned and the pack seems to be functioning ok since I have no codes.

[maupineda]

They look good. You missed testing leakage

[nextelbuddy]

I ran a Vanos test on my stock untouched Vanos system last March 2022 and then replaced all of my Vanos system this month.

- Beisan Vanos seals - beisan rattle kit
- beisan oil sealing plate kit
- beisan Vanos oil restrictor seals and Vanos filter
- re-drilled disc
- original pressure accumulator but new bolts, washers and lines
- lang racing hub bolts kit
- timing chain tensioner
- chain guides
- full valve adjustment


I just finished buttoning everything up a long with performing a valve adjustment as well which was severely needed

My tests show as OKAY so I'm guessing that means it all passed? Could you please take a look at this recent test and let me know how it looks?

I have put no miles on this, simply fully warmed up the engine and cleared adaptations.

I'll post the new results here and then the old ones from before Vanos job


New Vanos results 2-2-2023

Test file : C:\EDIABAS\ECU\MSS54_VANOS_TESTS.TST
Start     : 02.02.2023 13:36:00.2
Nr 1(  1) : 02.02.2023 13:36:00.3
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_FRUEHANSCHLAG","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY        
  EVAN_ISTWERT                    = 0                  00 00  ..      
  EVAN_SOLLWERT                   = -10          FF FF FF F6  ��
  EVAN_ISTWERT_EINH               = Grad KW    
  EVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH              = Grad KW    
Nr 2(  1) : 02.02.2023 13:36:05.7
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_SPAETANSCHLAG","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY        
  EVAN_ISTWERT                    = 60                 00 3C  .<      
  EVAN_SOLLWERT                   = 75                 00 4B  .K      
  EVAN_ISTWERT_EINH               = Grad KW    
  EVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH              = Grad KW    
Nr 3(  1) : 02.02.2023 13:36:11.0
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_VERSTELLZEIT","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY        
  EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH         = 265                01 09  ..      
  EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET         = 240                00 F0  .𠠠  
  EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH_EINH    = ms          
  EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET_EINH    = ms          
Nr 4(  1) : 02.02.2023 13:36:17.3
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_DICHTHEIT","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY        
  EVAN_STATUS                     = EVANOS-1-Einheit vorzeitig weggedriftet
Nr 5(  1) : 02.02.2023 13:36:31.7
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_FRUEHANSCHLAG","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY        
  AVAN_ISTWERT                    = 0                  00 00  ..      
  AVAN_SOLLWERT                   = -10          FF FF FF F6  ��
  AVAN_ISTWERT_EINH               = Grad KW    
  AVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH              = Grad KW    
Nr 6(  1) : 02.02.2023 13:36:37.1
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_SPAETANSCHLAG","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY        
  AVAN_ISTWERT                    = 48                 00 30  .0      
  AVAN_SOLLWERT                   = 55                 00 37  .7      
  AVAN_ISTWERT_EINH               = Grad KW    
  AVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH              = Grad KW    
Nr 7(  1) : 02.02.2023 13:36:42.4
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_VERSTELLZEIT","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY        
  AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH         = 188                00 BC  .      
  AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET         = 220                00 DC  .ܠ    
  AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH_EINH    = ms          
  AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET_EINH    = ms          
Nr 8(  1) : 02.02.2023 13:36:48.7
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_DICHTHEIT","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY        
  AVAN_STATUS                     = AVANOS-1-Einheit vorzeitig weggedriftet
Stop      : 02.02.2023 13:37:03.5
Dauer     : 63.2 s
​

Vanos test pre Vanos work 3/2022

Test file : C:\EDIABAS\ECU\MSS54_VANOS_TESTS.TST
Start     : 12.03.2022 15:53:48.9
Nr 1(  1) : 12.03.2022 15:53:49.0
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_FRUEHANSCHLAG","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY      
  EVAN_ISTWERT                    = 0                  00 00  ..    
  EVAN_SOLLWERT                   = -10          FF FF FF F6  ����  
  EVAN_ISTWERT_EINH               = Grad KW    
  EVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH              = Grad KW    
Nr 2(  1) : 12.03.2022 15:53:54.4
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_SPAETANSCHLAG","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY      
  EVAN_ISTWERT                    = 60                 00 3C  .<    
  EVAN_SOLLWERT                   = 75                 00 4B  .K    
  EVAN_ISTWERT_EINH               = Grad KW    
  EVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH              = Grad KW    
Nr 3(  1) : 12.03.2022 15:53:59.7
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_VERSTELLZEIT","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY      
  EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH         = 195                00 C3  .�    
  EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET         = 205                00 CD  .�    
  EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH_EINH    = ms        
  EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET_EINH    = ms        
Nr 4(  1) : 12.03.2022 15:54:06.0
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_DICHTHEIT","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY      
  EVAN_STATUS                     = EVANOS-1-Einheit vorzeitig weggedriftet
Nr 5(  1) : 12.03.2022 15:54:20.4
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_FRUEHANSCHLAG","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY      
  AVAN_ISTWERT                    = 0                  00 00  ..    
  AVAN_SOLLWERT                   = -10          FF FF FF F6  ����  
  AVAN_ISTWERT_EINH               = Grad KW    
  AVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH              = Grad KW    
Nr 6(  1) : 12.03.2022 15:54:25.7
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_SPAETANSCHLAG","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY      
  AVAN_ISTWERT                    = 48                 00 30  .0    
  AVAN_SOLLWERT                   = 55                 00 37  .7    
  AVAN_ISTWERT_EINH               = Grad KW    
  AVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH              = Grad KW    
Nr 7(  1) : 12.03.2022 15:54:31.1
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_VERSTELLZEIT","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY      
  AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH         = 152                00 98  .?    
  AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET         = 193                00 C1  .�    
  AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH_EINH    = ms        
  AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET_EINH    = ms        
Nr 8(  1) : 12.03.2022 15:54:37.4
apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_DICHTHEIT","","")
  JOB_STATUS                      = OKAY      
  AVAN_STATUS                     = AVANOS-1-Einheit vorzeitig weggedriftet
Stop      : 12.03.2022 15:54:52.2
Dauer     : 63.2 s​

[MParallel]

...
Please upload the results here so we can check them.

Will do for sure, though I can't give a time indication as the M3 is now in winter lockup, which is not next to my house.

I'm curious myself as I retimed the Vanos last August as it was off (on the mechanical exhaust side (the splinded shaft hub/gearbox)), resulting in an uneven idle as the cam couldn't reach its idle position.
Corrected this (have all the original BMW vanos related tools). Then ran the DIS vanos test, which prematurely failed, giving me zero results. Which is strange why the test itself would fail. It starts fine and then when it's about to display the results it just stops. Never had that before so that sucks as I want to know the result of the retiming.

[MParallel]

I'm pretty sure JOB_STATUS is referring to the routine having been completed successfully (i.e. the program on your computer ran through all the tests it had to perform) and not to the test having passed....

Correct. This is where DIS shines. It's doesn't only tell you what is wrong, but also explains how to solve with all its Test Schedules. And regarding the DIS Vanos test, does tell if values are within what is OK or not.

For example, here in German it says at the end that all Should-be and Actual values correspond.

[Tomba]

Wow that was quick. Thanks a ton.

Your welcome

Just so I understand correctly, I can execute this in INPA, or do I need to run this in Tool32?

Tool32 by opening test.

From BMW info, the vanos spread is (a little) different S50B32 vs S54. Since I see these target values being mentioned for the S54, does this goes correctly?

See values above.
Intake spread is 70-130 = 60° degrees. Exhaust spread is -114 - -76 = 38°
Typical OK values intake would be advanced -1 to +1, retarded 59 to 61
Exhaust i would expect advanced -1 to 1, retarded 38 to 41. Like the MSS54 I suspect the retarded value higher.
Response times would be ok below <250-300ms.
The leak check I am not really sure. I don't know how DIS calculates this yet.

Although these aren't 'hardcoded' numbers mentioned in the testfile, so I guess this is just what is inside the MSS50 (grp/ecu) files?

The evaluation is more done inside DIS eventually when running these. I suspect there would be error code in the ECU if the desired position is not reached but most of the times these are quite long compared to the desired response time we want.

EDIT: my bad, I now see on page one the instructions to run the .tst file. It's in Tools32. Well that's still easier then firing up DIS.

Please upload the results here so we can check them.

[MParallel]

Sure, in attachment.
includes ECU version check, coolant & oil temperature measurement before starting the test.
First E (einlass) intake is checked, than A (auslass) exhaust
Target values (E=60-0) (A=40-0), response times <250-300ms
******* Note this test procedure is for MSS50 ********

Wow that was quick. Thanks a ton.
Just so I understand correctly, I can execute this in INPA, or do I need to run this in Tool32?
From BMW info, the vanos spread is (a little) different S50B32 vs S54. Since I see these target values being mentioned for the S54, does this goes correctly?
Although these aren't 'hardcoded' numbers mentioned in the testfile, so I guess this is just what is inside the MSS50 (grp/ecu) files?

EDIT: my bad, I now see on page one the instructions to run the .tst file. It's in Tools32. Well that's still easier then firing up DIS.

[Tomba]

Tomba, would you be able to make a custom Vanos test file like you did for the S54. but for the EU S50B32?

Sure, in attachment.
includes ECU version check, coolant & oil temperature measurement before starting the test.
First E (einlass) intake is checked, than A (auslass) exhaust
Target values (E=60-0) (A=40-0), response times <250-300ms
******* Note this test procedure is for MSS50 ********

[MParallel]

Just a tiny sidenote: *.ipo files are generated from *.ips files. If you can get your hands on these...impossible. I haven't seen these being leaked.

Tomba, would you be able to make a custom Vanos test file like you did for the S54. but for the EU S50B32?

I always need to fire up DIS to perform the Vanos test, but if this could be done in INPA, that would just be great. I've done tons of work with INPA/DIS/NCS Expert, but never with Tools32.

I was already delighted I found a .ipo file for the EU SMG (my E36 M3 is SMG) that is not referenced in the INPA menu. So I changed the .txt file so this file can be executed and to my surprise it has many SMG test functions, but for each part individually, instead of having to run the complete calibration in DIS for the whole system. Only the bleed functions stop, so I guess this was a file that was worked on, but never got finished.
I mainly use it to do a quick relearning of the clutch bitepoint, which alone, can not be done in DIS. And I don't need to recalibrate things like throttle pedal, shifter, etc each time.

[JBAshland]

So when the splined shaft touched on the pump disk, the piston doesn't protrude out of the vanos? It must, although less than 2mm, as I don't think the designer wanted to use the pump disk instead of the cap to set the max retarded for the EX cam.

It does protrude very slightly - maybe .5mm whereas the Intake is @ 2mm. There are also small cylindrical nubs in the center of the cap that protrude outwards that must provide the 'stop'. You can see witness marks on the pistons if you look closely.

[sapote]

FYI - In my case, even after removing the Vanos and checking it out on the bench, I could see that the splined shaft along with the connection to the piston could not physically move forward 2mm out. It stops at flush as the front/flat side of the helical gear stops at the oil pump disc whereas the intake piston will protrude 2mm. I searched around a little bit and from various videos and pictures I saw, this was consistent. Sounds like you have seen otherwise?

So when the splined shaft touched on the pump disk, the piston doesn't protrude out of the vanos? It must, although less than 2mm, as I don't think the designer wanted to use the pump disk instead of the cap to set the max retarded for the EX cam.

[JBAshland]

I don't see why the splined shaft cannot move forward and push the EX piston 2mm out

FYI - In my case, even after removing the Vanos and checking it out on the bench, I could see that the splined shaft along with the connection to the piston could not physically move forward 2mm out. It stops at flush as the front/flat side of the helical gear stops at the oil pump disc whereas the intake piston will protrude 2mm. I searched around a little bit and from various videos and pictures I saw, this was consistent. Sounds like you have seen otherwise?

[sapote]

1. I was not able to push the EX piston 2mm forward of the vanos module - it was basically flush and after taking off the Vanos, I could see that the EX piston would only travel flush (maybe slightly extruded) until it was impeded on the other/engine side.
2. It did show that it was advanced - it was pretty far off...so I have likely been chasing issues, throwing parts at it as opposed to checking what was really going on.

1. I don't see why the splined shaft cannot move forward and push the EX piston 2mm out. I guess turning the EX cam CCW to move the splined shaft forward may not be a good idea in all cases, because the splines helical cut is not a steep angle, and so it is hard to translate rotation to linear motion in this case, especially if the piston has new seals and little tight. In this case, I should have asked you to remove the vanos module off the head, then manually pull the splined shaft out (but not completely out of the hub) while rotate the EX cam CCW, then install the vanos and the EX piston should be protruding out.

2. This case shows that it is not a reliable way to check vanos timing by just rotate the crank to TDC compression then check the cams with the bridge tool pin. As in this case, the OP could not push the piston pass the vanos with the removed cover. So it is better to remove the piston covers then push the pistons out by 1 or 2mm, then install the covers back and this gaurantee the cams are at their max retarded position before checking with the bridge pin.

[JBAshland]

So what was the timing check result? Did it show that the EX cam was too advanced after bolting down the vanos piston caps? Were you able to push the EX piston 2mm forward of the vanos module?

It did show that it was advanced - it was pretty far off...so I have likely been chasing issues, throwing parts at it as opposed to checking what was really going on. I was not able to push the EX piston 2mm forward of the vanos module - it was basically flush and after taking off the Vanos, I could see that the EX piston would only travel flush (maybe slightly extruded) until it was impeded on the other/engine side. The Intake piston, 2mm no problem. At one point I was doubting whether I had the correct splined gears on the intake vs exhaust side, but they were in the right place. Either way, thanks for all your help.