CSL Airbox/Management Ignition retard

[S54B32]

Made some logs (without lambda correction, Ambient:25°C, ROZ102) yesterday, but with some missing cells (will do more accurate logs on the weekend)
Maybe interesting for those who have the CSL Software with Karbonius airbox and oem cams without a custom tune.

[S54B32]

I‘m still searching a few hp in my engine.

Currently I try to solve a ignition retard between 4000-5300rpm from cyl 3&4 as shown in the log. I don’t get why ecu retards 3-3.5° Ignition from these 2 cylinders. Afr is safe, intake temp is low and 100-102 octane fuel in tank. I already added a bit fuel in this particular rpm area for cylinder 3&4, but I still get the same result. I don’t believe that a real knock event occurs, so I have changed today the knock sensor for 3&4. still same result.

Maybe someone had a similar problem and can give me a advise or solution for this.

[Tomba]

On the dyno I see ignition retards all over the place. Lifting the knock threshold maps (18x3 from memory) by 20-30% doesn't do anything. According to the funktionsrahmen there are many other parameters involved in ignition timing,
BASE, temperature corrections (IAT/CLT), coasting/MCS intervention, knock dynamic / dynamic pressure limitation / knock adaption, cylinder specific correction/ knock regulation, torque management, .....

With the parameters available by DS2 protocol its hard to find out which one is active.

On MSS60 (E9X) there is a ignition retard based on air filling. In case too much air filling is present (supercharger/turbocharger) it will retard ignition. Don't know the function from memory.

[Ryan_R]

Did you ever sort this out? I’m going through the exact same issue. Tuner csl intake, stepped headers, BW race exhaust. IATs are staying below 40C on the dyno. I had HTE tune the car and it’s sitting at 310 at the wheels on a dynojet. Should be making quite a bit more for the mods.
Ecu is pulling 8-10 degrees of timing at WOT across the board. Averaging about 22-24 degrees. Sometimes a few cylinders will hit 27 degrees but never close to the 31 that is being commanded at WOT.
compression test is 160 on all cylinders. Vanos has been refreshed and plugs/coils are brand new.

[BMWfanz]

Guys which logger (software) a you using to write log files?

[Pavlo]

I am not 100% certain on what sensor you are using, but the response on the modern ones is really quick. I am using a custom one that I made (milliseconds to respond) and also saw the high IAT with my Turner intake. Made a custom end cap with two ducts fed from bumper and from stock intake feed. I haven’t put a lot of miles on this yet, but with a dummy “proof of concept” version this made the IAT come down super quick compared to open air setup.

Moving the intake sensor doesn’t make your IAT come down, only makes your tune invalid. I would really look into ducting or at least verify that your sensor is having a response problem by going from cold to hot water and vice versa to see its response.

[Tomba]

Moving the intake sensor doesn’t make your IAT come down, only makes your tune invalid.

👍 Thats my opinion too. I really don't understand the logic behind all these relocation kits. The closer you are to the inlet valve the more accurate reading you have. Otherwise you could just position it in front off the grill.

[Mr.wReckless]

👍 Thats my opinion too. I really don't understand the logic behind all these relocation kits. The closer you are to the inlet valve the more accurate reading you have. Otherwise you could just position it in front off the grill.

I think the point of a(sensible) relocation is to avoid heat soaking the sensor and a "false" reading for when you're stationary in the car/start to move after being stationary, but also one that gives an honest reading at speed when fresher air is fed to the engine.

Regards

[S54B32]

If you use genuine CSL sw (0401) there is no need to relocate or such. Bmw engineers adjusted the influence of IAT corresponding to its location. And I’m pretty sure they know, what they did on the CSL.

If you use simple alphaN sw, I would rescale the IAT influence.

[0-60motorsports]

I located mine to the charge pipe, 1 inch above the hole opening (placed a second sensor in the OEM spot to plug the hole). Temps are 1 degree ambient at all times.

That seems like a good idea especially for me and the hot environment I am in. Thanks

[S54B32]

That seems like a good idea especially for me and the hot environment I am in. Thanks

This makes no sense on 0401 CSL software, without touching the IAT influence on IGN. You only fool the ecu that’s calibrated to the oem position…
On AlphaN (no CSL Software) it‘s a other thing.

[ZiMMie]

Is there an update to you initial probelm? Did you find out what was causing the retardation?

[S54B32]

Is there an update to you initial probelm? Did you find out what was causing the retardation?

I searched very long and didn‘t found a good solution. I lowered the knock sensitivity on these 2 for test purpose, but made not noticeable more hp on dyno. So I accepted this fact, turned back to normal sensitivity, enjoyed the result and a very strong s54 for a while. Sadly I don‘t have this car any longer and currently building another s54 M346, but FI this time.

[Bry5on]

I searched very long and didn‘t found a good solution. I lowered the knock sensitivity on these 2 for test purpose, but made not noticeable more hp on dyno. So I accepted this fact, turned back to normal sensitivity, enjoyed the result and a very strong s54 for a while. Sadly I don‘t have this car any longer and currently building another s54 M346, but FI this time.

Do you mind sharing what logging software you used? Thanks

[S54B32]

Do you mind sharing what logging software you used? Thanks

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