How do y’all set up your street and track front alignment?

[SQ13]

Sup y’all. I’m looking into setting up my front alignment to allow for a good street/spirited driving alignment that I can switch to a more aggressive track alignment when I’m at the track, using my Vorshlag camber plates FWIW. I have some questions about this.

1) How do you go about restricting the movement of the three camber plate studs along the slotted holes on the strut tower, so only the camber plate’s sliding mechanism is doing the camber adjustment? I initially thought of adding a spacer to the slots to prevent movement, but I don’t have the ability to make said spacers. Since the OE strut bar holes are circular instead of slotted, my second idea was to ensure the bar was torqued to both brackets, then adjust camber one corner at a time (thinking that the movement restriction of the bracket would prevent unwanted movement of the camber plate along the slots). However, I found that the bracket can still move around while both corners were in the air, and I don’t think having one corner loaded would prevent that movement.

2) What street and track alignment are you running? I was thinking -2.0-2.4° camber with stock spec toe in for street, and -3.0° camber for track. -3.0° works for my driving style and gets me a good tire temp gradient and west. I just wasn’t sure how much toe out would be added when I switch to the track camber. Ideally with the track camber, I would like to be at zero toe or slight toe out.

3) What’s your process for safely adjusting camber at the track? Don’t want to place my arm between the tire and fender to get my hand on the strut. I think the safer method would be to unload enough weight from the corner to allow for camber adjustment by pulling the top or bottom of wheel and/or a pry bar to slide the camber plates?

4) Do you strictly use the markings on your camber plates to get close to your desired camber, or do you also use a camber gauge to make sure the camber is spot on?

[heinzboehmer]

1. Push studs all the way in, then exclusively use the movement in the camber plate to adjust.

2. This one is hard to answer since it depends on a lot of variables. The usual method for the track, however, is to use a pyrometer and set camber such that all parts of the tire are at the same temp.

3. I recently learned that this tool exists, which seems like it would simplify things greatly: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...l/83300493325/ Otherwise, you can jack up the corner you want to adjust (just a little bit to reduce load on the tower, but keep tire in contact with the ground), loosen the three nuts and then use the handle of a mallet to push the camber plate in the direction that you want it to move.

4. I guess it depends on camber plate manufacturer, but I'm not sure I'd trust those. I would instead have the car aligned to street specs and make a mark on the camber plate so you know what to return to. Then use the pyrometer method for setting on track.

[SQ13]

1. Push studs all the way in, then exclusively use the movement in the camber plate to adjust.

2. This one is hard to answer since it depends on a lot of variables. The usual method for the track, however, is to use a pyrometer and set camber such that all parts of the tire are at the same temp.

3. I recently learned that this tool exists, which seems like it would simplify things greatly: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...l/83300493325/ Otherwise, you can jack up the corner you want to adjust (just a little bit to reduce load on the tower, but keep tire in contact with the ground), loosen the three nuts and then use the handle of a mallet to push the camber plate in the direction that you want it to move.

4. I guess it depends on camber plate manufacturer, but I'm not sure I'd trust those. I would instead have the car aligned to street specs and make a mark on the camber plate so you know what to return to. Then use the pyrometer method for setting on track.

Appreciate the feedback!

1) Cool, I’ll give that a try this weekend.

2) So I’ve found that -3.0° to -3.2° works best for me on track, based off my tire temp readings and tire wear. I’m wondering how much toe out would be added when I go from -2.0° camber and say 0.07° of toe in (each side) to -3.0° camber. I guess I can find out when I get my alignment next week, but the shop is new to me and I don’t wanna potentially annoy them. 😅

3) I watched a demonstration video to see how that tool works, and I don’t think it can be used on camber plates. I think it’ll only move top hats along the slotted holes on the strut tower. Mallet handle sounds like the cheaper and better option.

4) Gotcha. I’ll go ahead and mark the plates when I get my alignment next week.

Thanks.

[heinzboehmer]

Appreciate the feedback!

1) Cool, I’ll give that a try this weekend.

2) So I’ve found that -3.0° to -3.2° works best for me on track, based off my tire temp readings and tire wear. I’m wondering how much toe out would be added when I go from -2.0° camber and say 0.07° of toe in (each side) to -3.0° camber. I guess I can find out when I get my alignment next week, but the shop is new to me and I don’t wanna potentially annoy them. 😅

3) I watched a demonstration video to see how that tool works, and I don’t think it can be used on camber plates. I think it’ll only move top hats along the slotted holes on the strut tower. Mallet handle sounds like the cheaper and better option.

4) Gotcha. I’ll go ahead and mark the plates when I get my alignment next week.

Thanks.

Link to the tool demonstration video? That's unfortunate, was considering buying one to make adjustments easier.

You could do some math to get the toe vs camber curve, similar to what Bry5on did here: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...789#post216789 Otherwise, yeah, just ask whoever is doing your alignment to set it at what you want for track, mark location of camber plate and make note of toe and then repeat for street camber.

[Bry5on]

heinzboehmer that camber tool is cool.

I second Heinz’s suggestion to set & mark either street or track alignment (whatever your preference) and then move the camber plates over and re-measure toe on the rack. That’s less work than modeling the suspension in 3D honestly.

The street alignment I’ve settled on after a few iterations, starting from CSL settings and modeling my car’s roll to achieve ~ even camber F/R is the following:

Alignment, use CSL specs-ish:
Front camber: 2.3 deg
Front total toe: .06 deg, 3.5’
Front Caster: 7.6 deg
Rear camber: 1.5 deg
Rear total toe: .16 deg, 9.3’

CSL VIN: WBSBL95000JB98713 (for the alignment machine to be more green)

CSL factory spec:

[SQ13]

Link to the tool demonstration video? That's unfortunate, was considering buying one to make adjustments easier.

You could do some math to get the toe vs camber curve, similar to what Bry5on did here: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...789#post216789 Otherwise, yeah, just ask whoever is doing your alignment to set it at what you want for track, mark location of camber plate and make note of toe and then repeat for street camber.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-qoKjbSVFVg

That math is way outside my skillset haha. I’ll ask the alignment shop next week. Worst case, they’ll say no, and I’ll just ask the shop that will do my corner balance and alignment in June.

Edit: I just realized you could probably use that tool to keep the studs in place while you slide the camber plates. Prob not worth it for that purpose though.

[SQ13]

heinzboehmer that camber tool is cool.

I second Heinz’s suggestion to set & mark either street or track alignment (whatever your preference) and then move the camber plates over and re-measure toe on the rack. That’s less work than modeling the suspension in 3D honestly.

The street alignment I’ve settled on after a few iterations, starting from CSL settings and modeling my car’s roll to achieve ~ even camber F/R is the following:

Alignment, use CSL specs-ish:
Front camber: 2.3 deg
Front total toe: .06 deg, 3.5’
Front Caster: 7.6 deg
Rear camber: 1.5 deg
Rear total toe: .16 deg, 9.3’

CSL VIN: WBSBL95000JB98713 (for the alignment machine to be more green)

CSL factory spec:

Thanks. I’ll have a look at the CSL specs, as well as what you run, to come up with a nice spec for my needs. I didn’t realize the CSL uses less toe in the rear compared to standard M3. I always thought more toe in was better for the track.

[heinzboehmer]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-qoKjbSVFVg

That math is way outside my skillset haha. I’ll ask the alignment shop next week. Worst case, they’ll say no, and I’ll just ask the shop that will do my corner balance and alignment in June.

Edit: I just realized you could probably use that tool to keep the studs in place while you slide the camber plates. Prob not worth it for that purpose though.

Oh yeah, you're totally right. I really didn't give much though to how that tool works. Bummer

Someone needs to make one that has that collar in the center of the strut tower to have it slide over the protruding part of the shock shaft. That should work for camber plates and stock mounts. Would probably need a pretty big redesign to get enough travel for the collar though.

[SQ13]

1. Push studs all the way in, then exclusively use the movement in the camber plate to adjust.

So it looks like if I push the studs all the way in while the car is in the air, the strut bar gets locked in place. I can’t remove the bar while the car is on the ground due to the four bracket studs pushing in on the bar’s slots. Should I push them in all the way while the car is on the ground instead? Or push out all the way?

[heinzboehmer]

So it looks like if I push the studs all the way in while the car is in the air, the strut bar gets locked in place. I can’t remove the bar while the car is on the ground due to the four bracket studs pushing in on the bar’s slots. Should I push them in all the way while the car is on the ground instead? Or push out all the way?

Weird. Stock strut bar? If so, loosen the nuts from the shock tower mounts to the bar. That should give you enough clearance.

[SQ13]

Weird. Stock strut bar? If so, loosen the nuts from the shock tower mounts to the bar. That should give you enough clearance.

Yup, stock bar. I meant that the studs on the mounts are pushing in against the bar itself (yellow circle). The bar is actually stuck to the mounts due to the force against the studs, while the car is on the ground.


I think just keeping the brackets in the middle and using a camber gauge to set camber is prob going to be the better option. Obioban How do you go about switching between street and track camber?

[mrgizmo04]

Difference in camber between street and track you are looking at 0.6-1 degree, why bother change it? If you were looking to run 1 on street and 4 on track I'd say maybe, but again, why?

Camber is easy to adjust, the problem is that you also impact toe with that adjustment. Toe is what wears tires by introducing a constant scrubbing angle.

Where do you want to/need to toe in on track? Turn in is better with 0 or toe out in front, however to offset that and introduce stability on straights, you need to run more toe in in the rear. I would suggest running some toe in in rear for stability and power application since on power on, out of the corner our trailing arms naturally toe out dynamically (which leads to loose rear end and oversteer), unless you run some limiters.

I'd say don't split hairs at adjustment range of camber you are looking at.

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[Slideways]

Option 1 - Align car for both street and track and mark both tie rods and camber plates for each setting. This would give more range of adjustment for camber.

Option 2 - Align car for both street and track and mark only front camber plates. This would be less work and would give less adjustment range between camber settings. The street alignment would have some toe in and minimal camber can be added until the front end reaches zero toe for track.

Option 3 - Keep one setting for street and track. This might not be optimal for either street or track similar to a dual purpose brake pad.

Option 1 and 2 should be repeatable until the suspension components develop some wear (why alignments are recommended). This can also be done for the rear, but depends on how much time an owner wants to spend on adjusting settings.


On the E9XM forum, a BMW specialist shop said they tried this on their E9XM and this was the result:

"Adding -0.7* - -1.0*of camber up front will approximately change toe by 1/16th" to 3/64" outward.

With that being said, even if you did toe in the front wheels enough to compensate for the toe going outward at the track, the wheels would be toe-in a good amount."

Another person commented that their E36 would be able to switch camber settings with less impact on toe unlike their E90. E36 suspension is similar to the E46.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686180

[bigjae46]

Buy a string alignment kit...

How to DIY an alignment - NA M3 Forums