The make or break question....

[Graham]

How can you compare Spa and Ring....really you can't. They are entirely different circuits.

[Mike R]

And we both know that will NOT happen

Only in the world of Primates .

[shane@mbtech]

Which gives an average speed of 95mph and 106mph respectively - quite some difference. Goes to show that comparing Spa with the 'ring is like comparing apples with oranges :whistle: :119: !

Even allowing for different driver talents, the Spa time would need to be 2.27 in the GTR to give the same average speed as the 7.22 at the 'ring.....

And we both know that will NOT happen

[shane@mbtech]

Hi,

Quote - ''I disagree - the 'ring is a very flowing circuit...... ''

MikeR- you can disagree all you like but
the Stopwatch does not lie or better
still, make any assumptions [remember the assumptions].

Spa is faster than the Ring, that's not according
to the Primate, that's according to the stopwatch.

The retoric is that Shrim Car would be faster on the
slower circuit than the faster circuit.

So could be a podium at Mondello but only with the
also rans at Silverstone.

Is this what they call revearse engineering ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Spa is faster than the ring on the stop watch because its under 3 mins:thumbs:

[Mike R]

There or there abouts Nathan

I'm sure Sy did a 2.53/2.54 with standard suspension.

A Nissan Gtr in standard form can do a 2.45 lap of spa. And a ring time of roughly 7.22

Edited to add the ring time is a pro, spa time is a couple of guys I know.

Which gives an average speed of 95mph and 106mph respectively - quite some difference. Goes to show that comparing Spa with the 'ring is like comparing apples with oranges :whistle: :119: !

Even allowing for different driver talents, the Spa time would need to be 2.27 in the GTR to give the same average speed as the 7.22 at the 'ring.....

[shane@mbtech]

Not very but I think my 2:54 is ballpark right.

There or there abouts Nathan

I'm sure Sy did a 2.53/2.54 with standard suspension.

A Nissan Gtr in standard form can do a 2.45 lap of spa. And a ring time of roughly 7.22

Edited to add the ring time is a pro, spa time is a couple of guys I know.

[Mike R]

Just for info.

Assuming a CSL will do a 2:54 lap of Spa at 7km (maybe too fast in fairness) and a 7:50 lap of the ring at 22km, average speeds would be 144 km/h for Spa and 168km/h for the ring so in this example the 'ring is miles faster?

Don't let the facts get in the way :blalalala: .

[_Nathan_]

Not very but I think my 2:54 is ballpark right.

[Mike R]

How fast can a CSL lap spa as standard? 2:54? Not with me driving for sure but theoretically with a pro driver?

Here is Shim's 2.49.3 (not standard - Intrax, APs, Supersprint and 265/35 18s all round)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdErvQVs6Ss&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[_Nathan_]

Just for info.

Assuming a CSL will do a 2:54 lap of Spa at 7km (maybe too fast in fairness) and a 7:50 lap of the ring at 22km, average speeds would be 144 km/h for Spa and 168km/h for the ring so in this example the 'ring is miles faster?

[Mike R]

Hi,

Quote - ''I disagree - the 'ring is a very flowing circuit...... ''

MikeR- you can disagree all you like but
the Stopwatch does not lie or better
still, make any assumptions [remember the assumptions].

Spa is faster than the Ring, that's not according
to the Primate, that's according to the stopwatch.

The retoric is that Shrim Car would be faster on the
slower circuit than the faster circuit.

So could be a podium at Mondello but only with the
also rans at Silverstone.

Is this what they call revearse engineering ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I love the way you chose to ignore all the empirical evidence based on just what you believe to be true :bigcry: :blalalala: !

[_Nathan_]

How fast can a CSL lap spa as standard? 2:54? Not with me driving for sure but theoretically with a pro driver?

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote - ''I disagree - the 'ring is a very flowing circuit...... ''

MikeR- you can disagree all you like but
the Stopwatch does not lie or better
still, make any assumptions [remember the assumptions].

Spa is faster than the Ring, that's not according
to the Primate, that's according to the stopwatch.

The retoric is that Shrim Car would be faster on the
slower circuit than the faster circuit.

So could be a podium at Mondello but only with the
also rans at Silverstone.

Is this what they call revearse engineering ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[DazBlackCSL]

:hahaha:

She loves getting in mine? :smt058

[Mike R]

Hi,

Quote-

''You cannot compare ring average speeds to spa average speeds. Bit naive to even compare really.

Lawsy- totally disagree.

To do the ''Alleged'' 7.05 BTG on the ring then you
have to avg over 100 mph.

Ring is slower than Spa, for several reasons
as proven over the years.

So if you can do 7.05 at the ring [slower circuit] then doing
2.36 at Spa in the same Car, [Shrim Car]
should be a walk in the park.

Those Cars will not get close to 2.36 at Spa even if
on slicks so how they do an alleged 7.05 at the
Ring will have to remain what it is 'talk].

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I disagree - the 'ring is a very flowing circuit and you spend the majority of your time well North of 100mph (which makes up for the few forays below this on the slower corners). In the dry, there is not one corner that is below 3rd gear (in the CSL).

I have a lap of 7.37 BTG on camera that I'm waiting for my mate to upload that was achieved just mucking around in his Westfield - I was in shorts (it was 30°C) had never driven it around the 'ring before, so was basically doing a sight-seeing lap. I know that pushing the car harder would easily see a very low 7 min. Now I can assure you I'm no track driving God and I only have around 500 laps under my belt, so it should be easily possible for a 'ring veteran to achieve these times in a well sorted car (over a clear lap).

Schirmer prepared GTS doing the full VLN circuit in 9.13 and the North Loop track in 7:28 (all officially verified).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxlRTsnughI

The GTS is 444bhp (450PS) and the Schirmer cars are 431, but "allegedly" 94kg lighter (as they stripped even more) than a GTS. So being 6 seconds faster than the GTS on the same wheel, tyre, aero package (the Schirmer cars have slightly better front end aero than the GTS) isn't unbelievable IMO. Look at the time difference for the CSL compared to the normal M3 - the only difference is the Cups, 110kg and 17bhp, yet I don't see you challenging the time of 7.50 as opposed to 8.22 - a full 32 seconds different with the same driver.