JB Racing Mid-Weight Flywheel W/ e34 M5 Clutch?

[m3f_fiveightandten]

This is how I'm looking at it....


The OEM E36 M3 flywheel is: ~$800

The OEM E36 M3 Clutch kit (disk,pressure plate, T/O bearing): ~336

Total: $1136


This doesn't even include all the seals, bolts, bearings, pins and other components that are to be changed out as well during the process. For these items you could probably add a conservative $200. Your looking at a minimum of say $1300.


Now to take into account the JB STEEL flyweel: $868 ($68 more than stock, a mere 8% price increase).

The OEM E34 M5 Clutch disk with E36 Pressure Plate and T/O Bearing: $411 ($75 more than stock)


This combined package is only $143 more than the stock package (~11% increase). Now you throw in the hours of labor (and beer) that it will take to finish the job, so what is another $150 when you already have so much invested. I still haven't decided as to whether or not I want to turn the car into a track mule, it may be a few years before I make that decision. My thought is that since I'm doing all of this right now anyway, why not spend a little more for to get a little more performance out of the car. This way if I decide to sell the car or track it, I will have a good kit either way.


I'm not saying that the stock clutch isn't good, it has lasted over 150,000 "M3" miles, which is certainly a testament to its durability. I feel that the M5 kit would be just a robust as stock, while providing a slight performance increase over it. Plus no one else seems to have this setup, so who wouldn't like that?

Your pricing is off. You can get an OE Luk FW on ebay for under $500: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUK-DUAL-MAS...334d9b&vxp=mtr


You can get the OE Sachs clutch kit for $250: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...lutch&_sacat=0


That's $750 for the OE setup. And FWIW, the clutch feel on the E34 M5 clutch and PP is lighter than the OE E36 M3 setup, not heavier. People swap in the 328i slave cylinder to try and get back some of the heavier pedal feel.


Your car won't explode if you put this setup into it. Just understand that we were looking into this stuff years ago and already determined there's not a lot (if any) benefit to setups like this. If you want benefit, you will have drawbacks.


This is one of those cases where you're not going to outdo BMW engineers without making some sort of compromise.

[m3f_Magic M3]

This is fun!

[m3f_pbonsalb]

I run the ebay Luk S52 flywheel. Cost $400 when I bought in 2010. No flywheel lock hole but otherwise like OEM. Mine is holding 500 lbs rwtq no problem. For a midweight flywheel, just buy the F1 Racing steel wheel. I think it is less than $400.


I would not worry about a LTW aluminum flywheel, as long as you raise the idle speed to 850 rpm in the tune. That is what I did when I ran one. No noticeable rattle except maybe on a really hot day you could hear a little (but less than the stock twin disk clutch on my E90M3), and no issues modulating the clutch getting off the line. With a stock idle speed, I would not want a LTW flywheel. Have not tried the single mass steel one, so I cannot comment on that.


I agree you do not need a heavy duty clutch for a near stock motor. My stock S52 clutch did not slip until after I went stage 2 centrifugal -- over 300 lbs rwtq. It handled stage 1 centrifugal just fine.

[m3f_badgtho]

Not all of us get excited about taking the Lewis and Clark route with things that are rigidly connected to our precisely balanced, 15+ year old crank shafts. But, by all means, experiment.

Exactly.

These noobs love mods for the sake of mods. Regardless of any reasoning behind it.


A stock clutch is:


1: perfect for your application

2: has optimal pedal feel

3: will fit properly

4: is priced comparably to this half cooked Frankenstein clutch.

[m3f_englishtom1596q]

the way i see it is these cars have been around long enough that almost everything has been tried by now.

[m3f_98///MPower]

Exactly.

These noobs love mods for the sake of mods. Regardless of any reasoning behind it.



A stock clutch is:

4: is priced comparably to this half cooked Frankenstein clutch.

I don't have any reasoning behind it? Thanks, I appreciate the input.



That "half cooked Frankenstein clutch" your referring to is manufactured by the same company the makes the clutch in your car, unless of course you installed an aftermarket kit yourself. In that case, what was your reasoning?



I posted to the forum to gain some insight on a potential clutch package that I have not come across before. I'm not looking to upset people. I am probably going to go OEM anyways... I was simply trying to understand the known drawbacks of this setup and raise some discussion, not arguments.



Many people have gone with the JB lightweight flywheel application. If an oem package that weighs 34lbs is ok for the car, why wouldn't a package that is predominately oem and weighs 33lbs be ok, assuming the flywheel is balanced? Are you suggesting that a mass produced oem dual-mass flywheel is going to be "more balanced" than a solid steel unit from flywheel specialty company? Unless you are against reducing flywheel weight completely, and assuming (I'm waiting to hear back from JBR) the stack height of this package is the same as stock, what is the problem?



In the future the clutch would be much cheaper to replace than the flywheel. Having a sprung hub clutch which has all of the wear components built into it makes it less likely that I would have to change the flywheel at the same time again. The flywheel could be resurfaced at that point in time. Where as with the dual mass flywheel, you could resurface it, but the springs and dampening ability could be shot, rendering the flywheel useless again. My .

[m3f_98///MPower]

Your pricing is off. You can get an OE Luk FW on ebay for under $500: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUK-DUAL-MAS...334d9b&vxp=mtr



You can get the OE Sachs clutch kit for $250: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...lutch&_sacat=0



That's $750 for the OE setup. And FWIW, the clutch feel on the E34 M5 clutch and PP is lighter than the OE E36 M3 setup, not heavier. People swap in the 328i slave cylinder to try and get back some of the heavier pedal feel.



Your car won't explode if you put this setup into it. Just understand that we were looking into this stuff years ago and already determined there's not a lot (if any) benefit to setups like this. If you want benefit, you will have drawbacks.



This is one of those cases where you're not going to outdo BMW engineers without making some sort of compromise.

I am fully aware of different prices...and I'm no stranger to ebay. If one can find the OE setup for $750, one can probably manage to find the setup I'm looking for a more reasonable price as well. I just haven't spent the time looking everywhere for better prices for a kit that I may or may not go with. I was trying to make a comparison is all.



All in all, I'm probably going to go with the stock setup. I figured someone had already tried this before, so I was just looking to see what they found out. Thanks guys.

[m3f_fiveightandten]

I posted to the forum to gain some insight on a potential clutch package that I have not come across before. I'm not looking to upset people. I am probably going to go OEM anyways... I was simply trying to understand the known drawbacks of this setup and raise some discussion, not arguments.

Noone is upset or arguing. I think you need to spend some more time around here. I suppose it's completely understandable to misinterpret peoples' tones. But I wouldn't worry about people being upset. They're not.

Many people have gone with the JB lightweight flywheel application. If an oem package that weighs 34lbs is ok for the car, why wouldn't a package that is predominately oem and weighs 33lbs be ok, assuming the flywheel is balanced? Are you suggesting that a mass produced oem dual-mass flywheel is going to be "more balanced" than a solid steel unit from flywheel specialty company? Unless you are against reducing flywheel weight completely, and assuming (I'm waiting to hear back from JBR) the stack height of this package is the same as stock, what is the problem?

The OEM package is a dual mass flywheel, with a solid hub clutch, and a pressure plate that was designed to work with both of those components. The transmission, clutch, and DM unit were all designed to work together.



People switch to single mass flywheels all the time. But they do it to save weight. Your idea was to switch to a setup that effectively saves no notable weight, while completely changing the engineering of the DM setup, and making the pedal effort lower (which is not what you wanted). You would also pay more for this setup.



When OEM works fine, has no drawbacks, costs less, and holds plenty of power, there's simply no reason to pay more money for a setup that provides no benefit and introduces some question marks. I believe that was the implication. Too many people try and reinvent the wheel (quite literally in this case) without; A) fully understanding what they're changing, and B) Moving laterally, as opposed to actually making anything better.

In the future the clutch would be much cheaper to replace than the flywheel. Having a sprung hub clutch which has all of the wear components built into it makes it less likely that I would have to change the flywheel at the same time again. The flywheel could be resurfaced at that point in time. Where as with the dual mass flywheel, you could resurface it, but the springs and dampening ability could be shot, rendering the flywheel useless again. My .

If serviceability is what you're looking for, and it's important enough to trump the other reasons to just go with an OE setup, then let us know how it works out in 2022 or so when it's time to pull the transmission down again.

I am fully aware of different prices...and I'm no stranger to ebay. If one can find the OE setup for $750, one can probably manage to find the setup I'm looking for a more reasonable price as well. I just haven't spent the time looking everywhere for better prices for a kit that I may or may not go with. I was trying to make a comparison is all.



All in all, I'm probably going to go with the stock setup. I figured someone had already tried this before, so I was just looking to see what they found out. Thanks guys.

If you were fully aware that the OE setup could be had for for less than the price you had quoted, I guess i'm confused as to why you didn't quote what those components would actually cost you.



You won't be able to find that JBR FW for much cheaper than what you estimated. This is why I mentioned the fact that the OE setup is available for much cheaper than what you were citing. It negates the economic argument to go with that setup.



FWIW, i'm not attacking you. You clearly want the best setup for the car on your budget, and IMO it's OE. You can try and piece together a bunch of components that don't belong in there, find out if it was cause any undue wear or make noise, find out if anything needs to be installed backwards in order to fit, and pay more money for all of it. But at the end of the day, IMO in this case, it just makes more sense to go with the stuff that was designed to be in there.



Hope that helps.

[m3f_EvanZHP]

Oh, internet warriors. Lolz.

[m3f_badgtho]

I don't have any reasoning behind it? Thanks, I appreciate the input.


That "half cooked Frankenstein clutch" your referring to is manufactured by the same company the makes the clutch in your car, unless of course you installed an aftermarket kit yourself. In that case, what was your reasoning?


I posted to the forum to gain some insight on a potential clutch package that I have not come across before. I'm not looking to upset people. I am probably going to go OEM anyways... I was simply trying to understand the known drawbacks of this setup and raise some discussion, not arguments.


Many people have gone with the JB lightweight flywheel application. If an oem package that weighs 34lbs is ok for the car, why wouldn't a package that is predominately oem and weighs 33lbs be ok, assuming the flywheel is balanced? Are you suggesting that a mass produced oem dual-mass flywheel is going to be "more balanced" than a solid steel unit from flywheel specialty company? Unless you are against reducing flywheel weight completely, and assuming (I'm waiting to hear back from JBR) the stack height of this package is the same as stock, what is the problem?


In the future the clutch would be much cheaper to replace than the flywheel. Having a sprung hub clutch which has all of the wear components built into it makes it less likely that I would have to change the flywheel at the same time again. The flywheel could be resurfaced at that point in time. Where as with the dual mass flywheel, you could resurface it, but the springs and dampening ability could be shot, rendering the flywheel useless again. My .

Sorry. You have reasoning. It's flawed.

[m3f_badgtho]

Oh, internet warriors. Lolz.

Hey I know,


Rather than debate technical issues why don't we all write reviews of Chinese coilovers.

[m3f_EvanZHP]

Hey I know,



Rather than debate technical issues why don't we all write reviews of Chinese coilovers.

I love when grown men pick fights on car forums. Do you camp out here all day and wait for people to have a different opinion than yours so you can act like a ****?

[m3f_EvanZHP]

And there's no debate, dude. You're the M3 deity, remember?

[m3f_badgtho]

I love when grown men pick fights on car forums. Do you camp out here all day and wait for people to have a different opinion than yours so you can act like a ****?

So you lurk here just to cry and whine when people disagree?


Read the title of the thread and the first post. The guy is looking for an opinion and that's what he is getting.

[m3f_badgtho]

And there's no debate, dude. You're the M3 deity, remember?

Yes. I remember.

And you're the guy who wants to run broadway statics.


**** off.