MSS6x Flasher - Now released!

[terra]

Very respectable plan. Seems any project like this requires people with different skills sets, it's a shame that those guys don't want to contribute back. Are they saying that there were no program modifications made either??

Sure sounds like that's what they're saying (at least Peter, the other guy seems to be even less willing to share)

No hacking Just good old fashioned time, money, development. 4 years since Nuno wanted to do it, we made good head-way around 2 years ago, but mostly in the last 6-8 months did we really hone it down, we're not forum people. I have a business which tunes cars globally now, but for Nuno and his brother it's just a love and passion for the brand. I nearly gave up many times saying it couldn't be done, but they kept me going. A lot of late nights, over many years now. All with stressfull full-time jobs, this was an escape probably more than anything.

Friends for years, he's not a customer in any way shape or form, just love BMW's and wanted it to succeed. The cost involved is just too much for most, so I can see why so many have tried and failed, and it's been left to the "DIY'ers" which I guess is where the 140+ page thread has come from on other forums, with obviously a lot of clever people on it. What Jim has done, and continues to try and do is outstanding, absolutely incredible.

Most recently we have the paddle's working, OEM M6 steering wheel. No aftermarket ECU/TCU/Piggyback or anything else of the sorts anywhere on this car. We will try and get a video this weekend. A bit more in-depth to prove it.

Jim isn't wrong in that respect, but he's not right either, but not a lot was known about the TCU at the time. They know how to talk to each-other, they actually demand very little from each-other. It's been over-complicated.

Main issues have really been because the car started from 0, it was stripped down to a bare shell, so we had to start from the ground up. We will probably build another one, an M5 this time, without any of the race-car complications it should be a lot easier, plus we have the knowledge of what we've done already, could probably get the whole thing done in a week or 2 this time. Already have some interested parties from the UAE and elsewhere who want us to install the conversion on twin turbo beasts as they're fed up with Manual/SMG and realistically DCT is the next possible modification for these amazing engines.

From his words, it sounds like there was no software involved and no translation needed between torque messages etc. Sounds like most of the work was fixing the mess they made of the car in the first place really.

I don't know if I really believe that. Not like any of us are going to be able to rip the software from their car.

I can see that the DCT computer only needs some inputs and outputs, because it truly acts as a blackbox. I don't have a M3 or a DCT, just an M5 6MT and M5 SMG. We know that there is a usecase where the DME really doesn't need to know that much about the engine when it's mated to the 6MT.

The BDM lock is only on the MSS60 right? I thought I read that the MSS65 doesn't have the BDM lock, there's not that much out there about the MSS65 vs the MMS60

Yeah I don't know - I can imagine not needing a crazy amount of information, but I would think they still need to know how to talk to each other to get things like launch control, rev matching, etc working right

BDM lock is indeed only MSS60. Even late models were never locked as best as I can tell (though who knows what the situation would be if you bought a new DME today).

[hansbrix]

Very respectable plan. Seems any project like this requires people with different skills sets, it's a shame that those guys don't want to contribute back. Are they saying that there were no program modifications made either??

I can see that the DCT computer only needs some inputs and outputs, because it truly acts as a blackbox. I don't have a M3 or a DCT, just an M5 6MT and M5 SMG. We know that there is a usecase where the DME really doesn't need to know that much about the engine when it's mated to the 6MT.

The BDM lock is only on the MSS60 right? I thought I read that the MSS65 doesn't have the BDM lock, there's not that much out there about the MSS65 vs the MMS60

[terra]

I agree all the more reason why we need to figure this out though. What are you guys using to view the bin? I'm assuming you're not using a conventional hex editor? Still new to the BMW/ Siemens stuff, but really want to learn more. I have winOLS installed but my experience with calibration work is on GM PCMs using the HP tuners, which is basically a complete IDE for editing the cal.

Honestly I haven't been messing with actual tuning yet. Right now my main goal has been to analyze the read/write routines and the various security mechanisms on the DME. To that end, a lot of my work has been disassembling the DME software, mostly the second stage boot code, in things like IDA and Ghidra. Also generally logged what all the commands flying around during a WinKFP flash were and things like that.

My next personal goal is to disable the BDM lock on the DME so that 1) we can recover these things if we mess up while OBD flashing (not very likely when limiting yourself to tune modifications, but once you start making program modifications the chance of error increases), and 2) so that we can clone DMEs in the case one needs to be replaced for hardware failure

[hansbrix]

Yeah I dunno. They don't seem like assholes like Gintani, but I just have a very hard time believing that you can essentially plug everything in and just have it work without having to do any software manipulation on either the DME, EGS, or both.

I agree all the more reason why we need to figure this out though. What are you guys using to view the bin? I'm assuming you're not using a conventional hex editor? Still new to the BMW/ Siemens stuff, but really want to learn more. I have winOLS installed but my experience with calibration work is on GM PCMs using the HP tuners, which is basically a complete IDE for editing the cal.

[patsbimmer1]

Joined just to follow this thread! Can't wait to try it in my '11 e90 m3!

[terra]

Yeah I dunno. They don't seem like assholes like Gintani, but I just have a very hard time believing that you can essentially plug everything in and just have it work without having to do any software manipulation on either the DME, EGS, or both.

[Martyn]

I’ve been through and compared the latest euro and latest US cars DME software and like Terra says the differences are very minor.

[terra]

Don't even need to flash, I can extract the relevant stuff from the WinKFP files themselves. I wouldn't think there'd be a huge difference though.

On the other hand, perhaps there's a reason the Euro version has a much higher software number (520E) vs US (160E)

[hansbrix]

So given the new news on the m5board, I was wonder what you guys think about how can we figure out if the code to control the DCT/DKG is indeed there? Couldn’t we just use WinKFP to flash a MSS65 DME with a euro calibration then evaluate the difference in the code? I have a bimmergeeks cable coming but I have a few running M5s I could play with. I just have never flashed or updated modules yet on the M5 since I’m been busy fixing the myriad of mechanical stuff. I’m gonna try installing ISTA/P also since I think that plus an ICOM is require to update the I level of the car. But for the DME only, is it that I can use WinKFP with the appropriate datens to flash the DME. I suppose if someone already has the full bin of a euro DME we can just use terra’s nifty tool here? We’d have to edit the VIN and other stuff though right?

[terra]

So at some point I accidentally introduced a bug that skipped over the signature check when flashing a tune to the MSS60. Fixed version is uploaded now, I recommend all testers redownload.

[terra]

The one-stop electronics is probably one of the easier ones to modify. It already has AVR ISP header on board, so you don't need to do any soldering. Just plug in the programmer and program the chip

[tdott]

Just to confirm that the Frieling iflash adapter that comes with most after market tunes, will not work with Ediabas (inpa/ncs/ista/etc) software, therefore doesn't work with this flasher.
I've read conflicting info on that before, but tested it myself with no success.

I'm buying a bimmergeek cable vs modifying my old one-stop-electronic cable I've had for years.

[terra]

Sorry for the delay. Got so many PMs that I missed a couple. Responded to you

[Dash1]

pm'ed you terra

[terra]

Quick question in how big a full read bin should be for a MSS65. My full read was 5.00 MB (5,242,880 bytes). Does this seem correct? I ask because a few months back I was looking at doing some tuning and found a bin that someone uploaded, I think it was a BDM read. That one was 1.00 MB (1,048,576 bytes). What accounts for the stark difference and what should be the correct size of a full bin?

5MB is correct. It's structured like so

Injection (left) Internal flash - 512KB
Injection (left) External flash - 2MB
Ignition (right) Internal flash - 512KB
Ignition (right) External Flash - 2MB

The tune is stored in the last 64K of each internal flash. Program code is spread between the internal and external flashes. Most of the external flash is empty, but is still necessary to make a full backup and to generate an RSA patch.

The bin you found was likely a dump of both internal flashes.