G82 and E46 side by side

[lemoose]

What drove the decision was to kill tradition. Literally. It's this "progressive" crap all these companies are all doing. They aren't ran by people know or care about cars. BMW is just another luxury brand that sources half the parts from Taiwan and China. That's why there's a major shortage of new cars. The seats are super comfortable at least.

Lol this has nothing to do with progressive ideology- albert biermann himself has stated that the move to turbo was driven mostly by (im paraphrasing here) lazy engineering. Bmw was done with M spending so much money on bespoke engines that on paper were less powerful than what the competition was putting out. I believe they call this the free market. It has countlessly been proven that turbo engines arent any more economical or environmentally friendly than their NA counterparts. They are, however, a cheap way to make power and cut R&D costs- especially in a market when people are buying cars basically off spec sheets.

the real culprit here is that many cars nowadays are designed by focus groups rather than engineers. So were ending up now with dozens of flavors of the same generic formula that does just about everything but nothing well. This is a profit motive. The reality is that many manufacturers have realized this is a more profitable strategy than to cater to the apparently small demographic that cares about driver engagment or whatever we want to call it

[Icecream]

Lol this has nothing to do with progressive ideology- albert biermann himself has stated that the move to turbo was driven mostly by (im paraphrasing here) lazy engineering. Bmw was done with M spending so much money on bespoke engines that on paper were less powerful than what the competition was putting out. I believe they call this the free market.

The design is progressive. It's what "everyone else" is doing and is in "fashion". No one is saying BMW isn't free to do what they want and make as much money as they want but we don't have to like it or care for the brand anymore, They are clearly catering to clientele that is after the flashiest, most obnoxious look at me fuck off personality with their design and marketing, a full 180 from where they were when the e46 came out (the initial 5 series of that generation didn't even have a visible exhaust tip) and the current 911 is proof they didn't need to go in that direction. They will sell well (especially with the same idiots that think loud = good sound) but not with this group. I enjoy new designs and like many of the new cars out today but ffs BMW you can do it with some class .

[chapmans]

Meanwhile Porsche is doing this:

This thing starts at 162k +20k ADM if anyone will even sell it to you. Isn't really in the same universe

[Icecream]

This thing starts at 162k +20k ADM if anyone will even sell it to you. Isn't really in the same universe

Tell me again, what's stopping BMW from building a 162k sports car? They were charging well over 100k for the last M4 comp. and even the base 911's and the Cayenne/Macan hand BMW their ass. Porsche is proof there is a market (you even said "if anyone will even sell it to you"). It's not a price problem, it's not demand, its not about being green, its about a company that just chooses to go in a completely different direction from where they came from because the marketing geniuses said so. GM did it for the better, BMW for the worse. Not to mention a nicer design won't cost them more, they did this design because that is the market they want, they want the obnoxious look at me buyer.

[CachacoE46]

Tell me again, what's stopping BMW from building a 162k sports car? They were charging well over 100k for the last M4 comp. and even the base 911's and the Cayenne/Macan hand BMW their ass. Porsche is proof there is a market (you even said "if anyone will even sell it to you"). It's not a price problem, it's not demand, its not about being green, its about a company that just chooses to go in a completely different direction from where they came from because the marketing geniuses said so. GM did it for the better, BMW for the worse. Not to mention a nicer design won't cost them more, they did this design because that is the market they want, they want the obnoxious look at me buyer.

I don't have a big problem with "look at me cars" if they are well designed. I mean, even a $30k Lotus calls attention but for the right reasons. Or a McLaren/Ferrari/equivalent. But I struggle with this "in your face" design philosophy.

[TexaZ3]

Lol this has nothing to do with progressive ideology- albert biermann himself has stated that the move to turbo was driven mostly by (im paraphrasing here) lazy engineering. Bmw was done with M spending so much money on bespoke engines that on paper were less powerful than what the competition was putting out. I believe they call this the free market. It has countlessly been proven that turbo engines arent any more economical or environmentally friendly than their NA counterparts. They are, however, a cheap way to make power and cut R&D costs- especially in a market when people are buying cars basically off spec sheets.

the real culprit here is that many cars nowadays are designed by focus groups rather than engineers. So were ending up now with dozens of flavors of the same generic formula that does just about everything but nothing well. This is a profit motive. The reality is that many manufacturers have realized this is a more profitable strategy than to cater to the apparently small demographic that cares about driver engagment or whatever we want to call it

Hit the nail on the head. SO sad.

[01SG]

Lol this has nothing to do with progressive ideology- albert biermann himself has stated that the move to turbo was driven mostly by (im paraphrasing here) lazy engineering. Bmw was done with M spending so much money on bespoke engines that on paper were less powerful than what the competition was putting out. I believe they call this the free market. It has countlessly been proven that turbo engines arent any more economical or environmentally friendly than their NA counterparts. They are, however, a cheap way to make power and cut R&D costs- especially in a market when people are buying cars basically off spec sheets.

the real culprit here is that many cars nowadays are designed by focus groups rather than engineers. So were ending up now with dozens of flavors of the same generic formula that does just about everything but nothing well. This is a profit motive. The reality is that many manufacturers have realized this is a more profitable strategy than to cater to the apparently small demographic that cares about driver engagment or whatever we want to call it

I agree, BMW is simply catering to the market and accountants. According to a quick Google search, sports cars in Europe circa 2019 accounted for a grand total of 0.08% of new car sales, the smallest segment aside from the Rolls-Royce class. And I'm pretty sure among those sports cars, they count things like a garden variety Audi A5 or Z4. SUVs accounted for 36.8%. And this is in Europe...Sports car sales account for 1.4% of revenue globally. Relatively, we're an ever dwindling market that doesn't make financial sense to invest in. Reputations are long established, they don't need the cachet anymore. It's sad, but inevitable.

Chevy dropped the manual, I don't see how they've changed for the better. The c7 was the modern peak. Notice Ford isn't bringing back the GT350. Only Porsche is holding out, but they're more upmarket, they're a more marketable brand in the sports car hierarchy, and they're part of an enormous conglomerate; a very different situation from BMW. And still, the Boxster/Cayman don't sell, and I'm sure that horrible Panamera and the SUVs make more than the 911.

From a financial standpoint, BMW is surely doing the right thing. From a driving standpoint, well, has anyone heard the new "Ultimate self-driving machine" tag? It's over Johnny, it's over. I think the end came sooner than it had to, though. We should have had one last great naturally aspirated M3 in the F80. I will always tie the downfall to the retirement of Paul Rosche. I think that's when the Motorsport division lost all its political clout within the organization, and was subsequently forced down a new path all too soon.

[ra2fanatic]

Saw the car multiple times in person, drove it. Its drives....fine. I didn't have a chance to really push it, but it drives like any turbocharged car - powerful, numb steering, very cushy. Reminded me of a lot of AMG models. It looks like a complete garbage, though.

Local dealer didn't even let my buddy drive it. Pulled up in his Porsche too. Apparently some dealerships are treating it as if it were that desirable....lol

[jbfrancis3]

Local dealer didn't even let my buddy drive it. Pulled up in his Porsche too. Apparently some dealerships are treating it as if it were that desirable....lol

That's consistent with BMW customer approach of late. Good luck to 'em

[Toby22]

I usually love these modern cars but damn that’s ugly

[TexaZ3]

Local dealer didn't even let my buddy drive it. Pulled up in his Porsche too. Apparently some dealerships are treating it as if it were that desirable....lol

Helps when you bought 10+ cars from that dealer and know GM well enough to have a beer with
Some dealers just don't have allocations yet. All they have is one car.

[Icecream]

Chevy dropped the manual, I don't see how they've changed for the better.n.

I meant grand scheme of things. Compared to the boiled plastic they sold in the 90's. Plus last i heard the Camaro drives better than the M4.
I also can't see the .08% counts A5's and M4's. Haven't looked at the numbers but i feel like 911 sales would eat up a lot of that .08.

[bmw m3 s50]

I think the smoking tire podcast said the new bmw m4 is larger then the e63 m6, which is crazy. At the end of the day, the crash and crumple zones are the main reason all cars are growing in size. That’s not changing due to all the safety regulations in place. Car manufacturers have to conform to these regulations, they don’t have a choice.

As for bmw styling I think it boils down to, they have to distinguish themselves from other manufacturers. All manufacturers have high performance models compared to the late 90’s. During the late 90’s to early 2000’s there was only few performance sedans and coupes. Now, there are tons of options. Unfortunately, the aggressive styling bmw is going with does not sit well with the more conservative enthusiasts.

[chapmans]

M3/M4 is how it is to appeal to the Chinese market. We can only hope that the M2 (which is the real M3 lets be honest) adheres more to traditional BMW design as a bone thrown to the die hard fans.

[lemoose]

At the end of the day, the crash and crumple zones are the main reason all cars are growing in size. That’s not changing due to all the safety regulations in place. Car manufacturers have to conform to these regulations, they don’t have a choice.

If this were the case, then smaller cars like the 2 series wouldnt exist. Its not as though smaller cars get more slack when it comes to safety- they have to conform to the same standards.