Csl for sale in Vancouver

[jet_dogg]

The CSL is far more special than any garden variety m3...especially if it has been manual swapped. The airbox and several hundred pounds of lost weight are huge improvements each alone. It's like comparing a basic 911 to a gt3. You cannot turn a normal m3 into a CSL with a few mods. A replica airbox still isn't even the real deal. And how could you possibly lose the weight without making the car a mess? The CSL is much more special and surely a much better drive.

The car is worth whatever anyone will pay for it. Used cars are inflated, plus this is an iconic collectible.

No, it's like comparing a gt3rs to a gt3. The experience is easily replicable with weight reduction and parts, it's still a production car.

Nobody is arguing it's not an iconic collectible.

[01SG]

The experience is easily replicable with weight reduction and parts, it's still a production car.

Our definitions of 'easily replicable' differ. The airbox alone would be ten grand, on top of a super low mileage donor, that's 50 grand right there. And no matter what, it will never be a factory original car, and would never have the same finish or original history that's important in a collectible.

As for weight savings; how much of it is low hanging fruit that can either be stripped from the CSL, or disturbs the weight balance?

[01SG]

I think we are pretty lucky with the E46 chassis to be able to convincingly replicate the CSL experience with a medium-sized handful of choice mods. Many members here have proven that there's a whole lot of weight to be lost without decreasing the functionality of the car in any way.

A quality replica airbox is close enough to the real deal for it to not matter at all with respect to the driving experience. Same goes for the CF roof. In fact with the $100k difference between a really nice normal M3 and this car ... I think one could build up a lighter and better driving car than the real CSL while still keeping it a perfectly functional four passenger street car (suspension, brakes, extra N/A power and revs are a few easy improvement areas off the top of my head).

However as many have pointed out that isn't the point, and I'd take the real CSL over even a GT3 given the choice.

I'm sure they get close, but it's just not the same thing, not an original factory car. A Shelby Cobra replica can be made to drive better than the original, but which is really more special?

[Estoril]

I do wonder what the driving experience is like but I do have to agree, it can’t be that much better some of the well modified cars here. But, no one is paying 170k for this because of the driving experience, surely a GT3 is better in every way and makes sense for all of us. Its interesting why cars like this suddenly become worth so much other than FOmO and some recent publicity, or maybe at the time people thought BMW would build amazing NA cars forever. Whatever the reason, 10 years ago no one really had a hard on like this for the CSL (and a few years ago they were 30k in the uk). Still, if an e39 M5 sold for 200k, this is worth 500k by that standard.

People want:

1. What they can't have
2. What others don't have

[jet_dogg]

Our definitions of 'easily replicable' differ. The airbox alone would be ten grand, on top of a super low mileage donor, that's 50 grand right there. And no matter what, it will never be a factory original car, and would never have the same finish or original history that's important in a collectible.

As for weight savings; how much of it is low hanging fruit that can either be stripped from the CSL, or disturbs the weight balance?

I said the "experience" not building a csl. You seem to be arguing building an actual csl where I said replicating the experience. If you were a blind folded passenger you would not be able to tell a difference between a csl and one of the guys rides here.

I love how some people think these are mystical cars made by some bmw voodoo but it's just a lightweight m3 folks with cool parts. I love the csl as much as anyone here and, again, yes it is a collectible that will fetch high dollars.

[repoman89]

I'm sure they get close, but it's just not the same thing, not an original factory car. A Shelby Cobra replica can be made to drive better than the original, but which is really more special?

I’ll take the one that drives better, don’t really care about what factory it was made in. There’s no reason at all that good aftermarket work can’t match or exceed the quality of what they did at the factory. Look at Singer 964s. Similarly there’s no reason at all that a company like Karbonius for example can’t match or exceed the quality of OE CSL air boxes or roofs. It’s just carbon fiber and manufacturing it has come a long way in 20 years.

Remember that “real” CSLs will still rip out their rear floors and possibly grenade their engines with broken VANOS tabs. In both cases aftermarket reinforcements and fixes exceed the quality of parts and construction that came out of the factory, so why not a few go fast and weight savings parts too.

I am not a collector though. On a car like this one a RACP reinforcement would probably reduce its value

[01SG]

I said the "experience" not building a csl. You seem to be arguing building an actual csl where I said replicating the experience. If you were a blind folded passenger you would not be able to tell a difference between a csl and one of the guys rides here.

I love how some people think these are mystical cars made by some bmw voodoo but it's just a lightweight m3 folks with cool parts. I love the csl as much as anyone here and, again, yes it is a collectible that will fetch high dollars.

The experience of having an ultra exclusive, super low mileage car with pristine build quality from the factory cannot be replicated for any small amount of money.

And a Singer? They are what, more than five times the cost of what an original 964 sold for brand new? Far more than this CSL which merely doubled in value.

The fact is, this is not only a CSL, but also a very low mileage E46. To replicate it would cost a hell of a lot, and any gulf in the price between that Frankenstein and a real CSL would be saved on resale value. Sorry, no one here has a more special E46 M3.

[repoman89]

The experience of having an ultra exclusive, super low mileage car with pristine build quality from the factory cannot be replicated for any small amount of money. ....snip.... and any gulf in the price between that Frankenstein and a real CSL would be saved on resale value.

Well, there you have it. To some people, the "experience" means exclusivity, resale value and originality, to others it means how the car drives and behaves when it's used as it was intended. The latter part of the experience is easily replicated and even surpassed for well under half this price (low mileage car included). No one was ever arguing about the other points.

[stephen]

And what is with the Porsche lust? I'd have a 550 Maranello at that price point.

I think that most of the people on here have a very limited interest in a ~3700lb GT car.

[jet_dogg]

Well, there you have it. To some people, the "experience" means exclusivity, resale value and originality, to others it means how the car drives and behaves when it's used as it was intended. The latter part of the experience is easily replicated and even surpassed for well under half this price (low mileage car included). No one was ever arguing about the other points.

Yep, that clears that up. I guess driving means nothing haha.

I think that most of the people on here have a very limited interest in a ~3700lb GT car.

Precisely.

[yhp2009]

Also should point out that the "experience" is neither just about driving nor just about owning something exclusive/special. Its more like a spectrum between the two (maybe more) and some people lean more to one side than others depending on their personal preference.

[Kcalhoun27]

Our definitions of 'easily replicable' differ. The airbox alone would be ten grand, on top of a super low mileage donor, that's 50 grand right there. And no matter what, it will never be a factory original car, and would never have the same finish or original history that's important in a collectible.

As for weight savings; how much of it is low hanging fruit that can either be stripped from the CSL, or disturbs the weight balance?

There is an airbox for sale right now for ~ $5500, so your statement is just incorrect. Beyond that, the parts to convert your car to a csl arent going to make up the difference between a decent M3 ($35k) and this car. There is no argument that this car is rare, but that isnt any justification in my eyes. The things that make a csl unique arent particularly driver friendly and would make a terrible daily driver. I appreciate it for what it is, but i dont mind holding it accountable for what it isnt.

if youve got the moeny to spend on that car, have a blast with it. Ian showed very clearly the mods can be done well and still keep the spirit of the csl alive. To that end, most people on this forum dont even like the car the way it was built, everyone thinks the smg has to go. So by that definition, most of you dont even want the csl that bmw built.

ill take my non-csl in a better color for a better price with a factory manual.

[George Hill]

No comment on the price or potential value down the road, but I had to laugh that the price doesn't include the $395 documentation fee, like if they just included that in the price would it have mattered?

[wahsm]

No comment on the price or potential value down the road, but I had to laugh that the price doesn't include the $395 documentation fee, like if they just included that in the price would it have mattered?

Those "documentation fees" are such a scam. With the list price being what it is, it is a bit of a joke they threw that in there. I make it a point not to by a car from a dealer that will not drop that. Very few keep it in when you are about to walk out the door.

[fullyflaredd]

The CSL is far more special than any garden variety m3...especially if it has been manual swapped. The airbox and several hundred pounds of lost weight are huge improvements each alone. It's like comparing a basic 911 to a gt3. You cannot turn a normal m3 into a CSL with a few mods. A replica airbox still isn't even the real deal. And how could you possibly lose the weight without making the car a mess? The CSL is much more special and surely a much better drive.

The car is worth whatever anyone will pay for it. Used cars are inflated, plus this is an iconic collectible.

And what is with the Porsche lust? I'd have a 550 Maranello at that price point.

No, a GT3 is far more different than a base 911 vs comparing a standard E46 M3 to a CSL. Different engine, suspension, brakes, almost everything is different. That is an awful comparison.

You can easily replicate the DRIVING experience of a CSL for far less money than 150k+. Even the aesthetics to a large degree. Many companies make very high quality replica parts. You can get a carbon airbox, a carbon roof, CSL trunk, CSL cams, nice leather trimmed Recaro seats, and it will be close if not less than the weight of a CSL with the same amount of power and not giving up anything in the way of quality. You can even get door cards, center console, etc from Karbonius, which anyone on here will tell you is of the highest quality. I'd go as far as to argue that you would not be able to tell the difference between Karbonius parts and original CSL parts if you did not know what to look for. The main difficulty is finding the interior, which as I mentioned you can just get quality leather recaros (FYI the CSL seats are retrimmed Recaros). Sure you won't have certain parts you can only find on a CSL or you won't have original parts, but it will be close to the same thing for far less. As I said, the only thing you're getting by paying this much is rarity and collector status, which if that is your thing, there is nothing wrong with it. If to you the experience means going to car meets and showing off that you have an original CSL, then sure, you can't replicate the experience. But as far as DRIVING goes, you can replicate or exceed the experience of a CSL for far less, as many on here have done.

FWIW I'm not arguing that this isn't worth the price, as surely someone will pay for it However even if I had the money, that person is not me.