Best self-centering shifter for SMG to Manual

[injekciona]

Hi guys,
The initial plan before the purchase of my SMG was to convert it to 6MT. But when I bought the car and tuned it with CSL software, I've started to like the SMG. When you drive it as a manual, it's quite nice and fast. Despite of it I've started to think again that I want my m3 to be manual and now I'm considering the options for the conversion. I've always wanted to have a self-centering shifter on my manual car and that's why I became very keen on the idea to use such shifter instead of machining my bell housing. But I don't like the shifters like the CAE that requires some trimming of the center console. The RTD shifter seems to be all that I need - it has a mini version and there is no need for trimming or drilling when mounting it. I made a research for the conversions made with the RTD shifter and I found that some people complain that there is issues with the reverse - when you try to shift into 1/2 you can easily pull the shifter into reverse. So is this a problem with all self-centering shifters when the SMG bell housing is not machined or that's only for the ones that don't have reverse lockout button? As far as I can see, now the RTD has a shifter with a lockout. What's your experience? Are the self-centering shifters good enough for the conversion or it's better to machine my bell housing, although I will install a self-centering shifter? Which shifter is the best option for the conversion RTD/CAE/Coolerworx? Or is there something better (I prefer the options without visual trimming of the center console)?

[mrgizmo04]

If you understand this one key thing, it will save you a lot of headache - all these shifters (IRP, CAE, Coolerworx, RTD, etc) are self centering, but they are not all appropriate for the smg car without bell housing machining.

Self centering, basically means it has 1 main super strong torsion spring that will yank the lever into N between 3/4. That is all that self centering means.

What do you do about all the other gates, R, 1/2, 5/6, how do you define them, that by moving the top of the lever 0.5inches to the left, you will be in 1/2 gate, vs moving it 1inch to the left you will be in R gate...

Well, the R gate you can solve with the locking mechanism they offer (most refer to it as a "lockout", which is a metal ring that sits just under the knob that operates a cable that pulls out the pin, which then allows you to move the shifter way left to get to R gate), which I suggest you get. Without it, plenty of stories of driving spiritedly and trying to shift from 3 to 2, yanking on the lever too hard to the left and instead of landing in 1/2 gate you get all the way over to R.

The other gate definitions like 1/2, 5/6 are what the bell housing machining does for you with the added detents. Without it, you will just be on a Microsoft flight simulator joystick (exaggeration).

There is a solution to that problem and it is the self centering shifters that have gate definitions, i.e little pins/screws that you can adjust. Not all of them have it... For example if you look at the Coolerworx street/short version, it does not have those, while the Pro version does. CAE does, I don't believe IRP or RTD have them. (random pic of CAE pins below as example).

The ones without reverse lockouts or the adjustment pins/screws are smaller and more compact and do not require trimming console pieces.

I am not here to rank shifters for you, I am here to arm you with some info to help you with your ultimate decision.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Bostonbruck]

RTD now has a shift knob that has a reverse lockout, so you cannot enter the channel that leads to reverse.

My car came with an RTD shifter and I thought it looked funny but after using it I can never go back to stock. My car does not have the lockout and it’s happened to me maybe 3-5 times in 3 years. Once you get used to the shifter it’ll almost never happen.

[SandeepM3]

CAE

/Thread

[eacmen]

I would recommend driving a swapped car without the detents. I’ve driven a true manual and a couple swapped cars without detents. One had CAE and one had an off brand I forgot the name of.

On the swapped cars without detents I struggled to get a good feel for confident gear selection.

I would recommend spending the money to get the detents machined.

[SandeepM3]

I would recommend driving a swapped car without the detents. I’ve driven a true manual and a couple swapped cars without detents. One had CAE and one had an off brand I forgot the name of.

On the swapped cars without detents I struggled to get a good feel for confident gear selection.

I would recommend spending the money to get the detents machined.

CAE didn't feel good either? What was the negative feeling.

I did mine swap myself and I was chatting with my mechanic and he mentioned "if you can get a hold of a 6speed trans Id swap it in". Ultimately he has done the job for customers but only with the RTD and said it just didn't feel right especially with 100% getting the right gate every time. So I forced him to try mine because otherwise it with play with my mind. He got out and said "I'm very glad you made me drive because I'm willing to the job again if its with a CAE."

[injekciona]

If you understand this one key thing, it will save you a lot of headache - all these shifters (IRP, CAE, Coolerworx, RTD, etc) are self centering, but they are not all appropriate for the smg car without bell housing machining.

Self centering, basically means it has 1 main super strong torsion spring that will yank the lever into N between 3/4. That is all that self centering means.

What do you do about all the other gates, R, 1/2, 5/6, how do you define them, that by moving the top of the lever 0.5inches to the left, you will be in 1/2 gate, vs moving it 1inch to the left you will be in R gate...

Well, the R gate you can solve with the locking mechanism they offer (most refer to it as a "lockout", which is a metal ring that sits just under the knob that operates a cable that pulls out the pin, which then allows you to move the shifter way left to get to R gate), which I suggest you get. Without it, plenty of stories of driving spiritedly and trying to shift from 3 to 2, yanking on the lever too hard to the left and instead of landing in 1/2 gate you get all the way over to R.

The other gate definitions like 1/2, 5/6 are what the bell housing machining does for you with the added detents. Without it, you will just be on a Microsoft flight simulator joystick (exaggeration).

There is a solution to that problem and it is the self centering shifters that have gate definitions, i.e little pins/screws that you can adjust. Not all of them have it... For example if you look at the Coolerworx street/short version, it does not have those, while the Pro version does. CAE does, I don't believe IRP or RTD have them. (random pic of CAE pins below as example).

The ones without reverse lockouts or the adjustment pins/screws are smaller and more compact and do not require trimming console pieces.

I am not here to rank shifters for you, I am here to arm you with some info to help you with your ultimate decision.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I've missed the fact that most of these shifters don't have the gate definition.

So, my concern should be if the shifters with the lockout mechanism and gate definition are good enough for the job or despite of it they don't get the right feeling for the gear selection. The CAE shifter seems to be good based on the SandeepM3 feedback but I don't like the idea for trimming. As far as I can see, the RTD REVO shifter with the locking mechanism has adjustable side stops that are for the gate definition or am I mistaken? Don't get me wrong, I don't want to save some money from the bell housing machining but in my country there is no garage that I can trust to do it properly. I'm after a manual bell housing for months but without success. My other option is to send my bell-housing to some trusted shop in Europe for the job but it will take a lot of time for the conversion.

[lapoune]

I have a RTD and CAE on different cars and they both work well on track cars but a good stock\autosolution shifter is sooo much better for street use I would really try doing the conversion properly if I were you. Never driven a car without detents so can't help there.

[meowth]

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/main-forum/e46-2001-2006/75779-solid-mount-short-shifters-cae-irp-rtd-aaf-coolerworx/page5#post81194

Creator of this thread had a similar question to you and settled on the Kinematic Speed race shifter. Might be worth considering since apparently it also has side stops and doesn’t require trimming of the center console. I’ve been eyeballing it ever since I read about it there, but a crazy shifter is pretty low on my priority list at the moment so I opted to rebuild my stock one instead. Lack of reviews/forum members running it adds some questionability, but so far everything I’ve seen looks positive. But of course the people making it wouldn’t bad mouth it lol. Maybe reach out to jareds941 to see how he feels about it now that he’s had it for a while. Just another option for your consideration, good luck on your swap!

[jareds941]

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...age5#post81194

Creator of this thread had a similar question to you and settled on the Kinematic Speed race shifter. Might be worth considering since apparently it also has side stops and doesn’t require trimming of the center console. I’ve been eyeballing it ever since I read about it there, but a crazy shifter is pretty low on my priority list at the moment so I opted to rebuild my stock one instead. Lack of reviews/forum members running it adds some questionability, but so far everything I’ve seen looks positive. But of course the people making it wouldn’t bad mouth it lol. Maybe reach out to jareds941 to see how he feels about it now that he’s had it for a while. Just another option for your consideration, good luck on your swap!

I have nothing but good things to say about the Kinematic. Everything from the responsiveness of the company when I had questions during install to the in-hand quality of it to the performance of it. It's made in NC and if you follow them on social you can see many steps of their process as they continue to share. The reason I was so into it was that you don't have to trim anything plus every piece that moves is a sealed bearing. Just made sense to me. There are quite a few folks on the various FB E46 M3 groups that like it and I know Morehead race team is running it in several race cars. I don't feel like the shifting effort is very high but precision is great. It doesn't have a lockout for R, but I honestly can not under any circumstances imagine a scenario where I could find R accidentally. I'm not going to 1st basically anytime other than super slow or more or less stopped...so left and up isn't a common move, and frankly for me, you have to go way left to get there, which I like. And no lockout means once less over-complicated part to potentially fail or need adjustment. Happy to answer any other questions...my car was an SMG but was swapped before I got it. 99% sure they did the bellhousing machining.

[usdmej]

Lack of reviews/forum members running it adds some questionability

unfortunately it seems like social media has replaced the forums when it comes to debuting new mods for most cars

i didn't know DCT swaps were such a common thing for the E46 M3 until i got onto car social media

[Mr.wReckless]

Having recently done the Manual swap with an RTD shifter I was swayed by the "no cutting interior" parts. It's a nicely made shifter. I'm not struggling to find the gates, though the lack of "gates" does add some level of finesse and getting used to. Reverse isn't really an issue as it's far to the left and only an issue for when you are (should be) static and are looking for 1st but wander too far and find R.

The self centering spring is nicely judged, and unless you're doing something really dumb like power shifting I can't see how you'd money shift this from 2nd to 1st, but I guess you could if you try really hard. My biggest gripe with this (and I'm not sure it's with RTD or with the BMW getrag gearbox) is from 3rd to 2nd. The 1/2 gate can be a bit finicky as it's very easy to move the stick too far left, but because you're pressing backwards there's absolutely 0 chance of hitting R. I've found moving the stick left and "aiming for the right rear passenger seat" with my elbow usually lands the shifter very nicely in 2nd. 2nd to 3rd is extremely satisfying with the way the shifter centers and pops so nicely into 3rd, it's basically just placing the knob in the palm of your hand and a gentle push forward.

Curious about this CAE with lockouts/gates now, as it would certainly fix my 1 gripe with the RTD, yet introduce cutting the console up. The Kinematic version only has a gate all the way over for R so doesn't seem to solve my gripe with the RTD shifter. Also the CAE is rather expensive if you're also going for a DSSR.

Regards

[m3nt0s]

I have a RTD and CAE on different cars and they both work well on track cars but a good stock\autosolution shifter is sooo much better for street use I would really try doing the conversion properly if I were you. Never driven a car without detents so can't help there.

+1 for street use, I’m very happy with stock shifter and Autosolutions kit.

[heinzboehmer]

My biggest gripe with this (and I'm not sure it's with RTD or with the BMW getrag gearbox) is from 3rd to 2nd. The 1/2 gate can be a bit finicky as it's very easy to move the stick too far left, but because you're pressing backwards there's absolutely 0 chance of hitting R.

Slight tangent, but I've had the same experience on my my car with multiple different setups. Unfortunately, I think it's just a trait of the trans.

For reference, my car is a factory manual and I've noticed this on all of these setups:
- Factory linkage + worn bushings
- 330d shifter + refreshed bushings
- AutoSolutions Autocross SSK

When driving normally, it's easy to avoid, as shifting times are usually slower (so it's harder to overshoot the 1/2 gate). But when driving spiritedly or on track, downshifting into second is a bit of a pain. Maybe what my car desperately needs is a driver mod instead of any more linkage/trans mods lol.

[Mr.wReckless]

For those who might still be interested and following. This 1/2 and 5/6 gate from the CAE version had me intrigued, so much I treated myself to one and express shipped it to me this week. Will install tomorrow.

Quality is really good, but to be expected, but I don't think RTD's version is any less so, the main difference is CAE is aluminium and RTD steel. RTD is a MUCH easier install though, and RTD I got with a metal head, whereas the CAE is some sort of plastic thing (not pictured btw).


Why CAE isn't pushing the adjustable gate side to their product is beyond me, it's pretty much unique to have this much adjustability:


Full size CAE vs "street size" RTD. Not crazy different, but I think I should have gotten the shorter CAE version, but at the time of ordering (1 am), I for some reason thought only the long version had the gate adjustability. Hey ho.. I'll survive.



RTD now for sale btw.