Community Feedback Requested Re: EuroConnex / Epoustouflant

[oceansize]

who in the heck is?

I... I.... think that was what I was asking, sort-a kind-a?

[Obioban]

Think it’s helpful to clarify what the definition of “Group Buy” is to some with their own preconceived definition:

*Group buying, also known as collective buying, offers products and services at significantly reduced prices on the condition that a minimum number of buyers would make the purchase. Origins of group buying can be traced to China where it is known as team buying.

At no point does an organizer need to have “skin in the game” for it to conform as a GB by definition.

Again if someone doesn’t find the pricing advantageous they don’t have to buy. But it appears his Group Buys garner enough buyers every time that it benefits the members imho. If he starts a GB for $200 off 20 widgets and you can make one selling same widgets for $250 off, more power to you! But anyone having organized a GB knows it’s a hassle and how much is your time worth?

As to mandating all Group Buys disclose how much they make. That seems a bit much, and does it really matter. Because if the price isn’t below market and benefit to collective group they won’t buy. Besides you don’t ask the guy in classifieds selling his CSL trunk or intake how much they bought it for. One just considers the price it costs you from buying elsewhere.

I think that's about where I am with this.

EuroConnex is consistently getting offerings of lower prices than if we bought individually, they're getting new products for the platform that aren't shit, and he is responsive and reliable. It is moderately annoying that we can't see the prices, but I understand it-- lots of vendors have strict MAP policies, and if he listed a lower price publicly, he would no longer be able to sell the product.

It's not a traditional GB, but it has the same benefits for us-- and it doesn't interfere with anyone's ability to have GBs for other products.

[Tones]

Damn, does anything else need to be said if this is anywhere close to accurate (I wasn't in that group buy, but even if it was $2k sheesh)? How in the heck is anyone going to argue that?

Some of the stuff his putting out you can only get in his site. Very bespoke type shit.

I think it's great

People got their panties all in a bunch about having to log into another site and missed out on a good deal. Some of the stuff he had isn't a great deal but what ever. I basically got the exhaust for free

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[terra]

I think that's about where I am with this.

EuroConnex is consistently getting offerings of lower prices than if we bought individually, they're getting new products for the platform that aren't shit, and he is responsive and reliable. It is moderately annoying that we can't see the prices, but I understand it-- lots of vendors have strict MAP policies, and if he listed a lower price publicly, he would no longer be able to sell the product.

It's not a traditional GB, but it has the same benefits for us-- and it doesn't interfere with anyone's ability to have GBs for other products.

I think the compromise will be to tag him as a vendor (probably should create a vendor usergroup if we haven't already), restrict the vendor usergroup from posting in the member classifieds sections, including group buys, and leave it at that. And no interest threads cluttering up the main forum from vendors. I would certainly prefer the prices be disclosed on the forum (again, it would be fairly trivial to make that visible only to registered members), but we could probably let word of mouth take care of that.

I don't fully buy the MAP thing anyways since a very large portion of his sales are from individual entities making a product in their garage rather than larger companies.

Damn, does anything else need to be said if this is anywhere close to accurate (I wasn't in that group buy, but even if it was $2k sheesh)? How in the heck is anyone going to argue that?

It's 3k off MSRP. The stuff is frequently sold for less than MSRP. When you're talking about a $10-15k exhaust, the usual discounts can get close to $3k pretty quickly.

I didn’t question it at first but seemed it was grandfathered in such a way that it benefited in two ways; circumventing the rules and by not being considered a sponsor by having to pay any affiliate fees.

Just to be clear, unlike the old m3forum, we're not charging any sponsor affiliate fees of any sort, however the expectation was to still contribute to the community in some capacity.

[terra]

As to mandating all Group Buys disclose how much they make. That seems a bit much, and does it really matter. Because if the price isn’t below market and benefit to collective group they won’t buy. Besides you don’t ask the guy in classifieds selling his CSL trunk or intake how much they bought it for. One just considers the price it costs you from buying elsewhere.

The difference is knowing whether there's a conflict of interest. Is the organizer marketing and generating interest in a product because it's something genuinely good or novel? Or are they bringing something lackluster to the table because they make a quick buck?

Same concept beyond why I have to disclose any drug rep dinners I go to and the such. No argument that the consequences are very different, but it rubs me the wrong way when people pretend to be enthusiasts trying to better the community when they just don't care that much

[Tones]

The difference is knowing whether there's a conflict of interest. Is the organizer marketing and generating interest in a product because it's something genuinely good or novel? Or are they bringing something lackluster to the table because they make a quick buck?

Same concept beyond why I have to disclose any drug rep dinners I go to and the such. No argument that the consequences are very different, but it rubs me the wrong way when people pretend to be enthusiasts trying to better the community when they just don't care that much

Who actually cares?


Imo we are lucky to even have a guy that has decided he cares enough to turn a buck from it. Other wise you would all be using ecs exclusively still.

This forum has been up for a couple years now. It's dead. Do we even have sponsors? It's not 2007 any more. Forums get a huge bad rap from young enthusiasts for the very thing thats going on in this thread. A bunch of old guys bitching and being generally jerks.


The only people in this thread that are upset are the ones that have not bought anything. A bunch of info tight wads and purist want to drive off a guy who is offering pretty unique shit for an old plat form



Like why do you care so much? Becuase you have to go to another site to see prices?


And just to be clear it was a 7k header exhaust I got for 4300. Ecs did 50% off once. Since than at most it was 20% off usually 15%.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[rbg]

Another potentially negative think I see from running GB like this. Imagine more commercially oriented person reaches out to a company and sees that a product in question would not bring desirable profit. So they will either not report back in it at all or say it is no go and this company would not to a GB. Where an enthusiast would bring all this information and we may still decide to go with less attractive GB and still get at least some discount.

[old///MFanatic]

it rubs me the wrong way when people pretend to be enthusiasts trying to better the community when they just don't care that much

I have not bought anything from EC. Not because I don’t like the products of Group Buys he has offered. Rather because I already have most of these popular items. If I didn’t already own I would likely jump on several of these GB prices he gets.
Terra I’ve interacted with you on forums since you owned a ZHP when you were like 18. I’ve noticed and felt over all these years you’re very reasonable and rationale. But is this only about how it affects the forum? Or maybe more about your personal disdain you’re bringing up for reasons you stated above? (which I understand sentiment but that’s a personal stance that varies from individual).

I don’t see how moving him from GB sub forum is helpful other than to make his GBs less visible. He runs GBs for a set time for a set number of slots. Then it’s done. That’s different from a Vendor who sells his publicly listed products every day. Since there’s no sponsorship fees (I’m aware of) I don’t see how he’s circumventing anything of fees and needs to be reined in. But maybe I’m missing something about how that is run behind the scenes.

[Nate047]

People out here acting like their own line of work doesn't involve upselling a product or service and their time for profit of some sort.

If you are upset that the guy is making money, why don't you go ahead and cut out the middle man, call up Supersprint and ask them to give you a discount, and report back.

[oceansize]

It's 3k off MSRP. The stuff is frequently sold for less than MSRP. When you're talking about a $10-15k exhaust, the usual discounts can get close to $3k pretty quickly.

I had no idea that 30% off msrp (if what tones says is accurate) is easily attained on the regular with respect to SS exhaust stuf. You sure about that?

Edit: I also strongly think I'd rather have 30% and not 25% or 20% when the bill is many thousands.

And just to be clear it was a 7k header exhaust I got for 4300. Ecs did 50% off once. Since than at most it was 20% off usually 15%.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

This sounds more in-line with what my thinking was concerning the GB and SS discounts.

[terra]

Who actually cares?


Imo we are lucky to even have a guy that has decided he cares enough to turn a buck from it. Other wise you would all be using ecs exclusively still.

This forum has been up for a couple years now. It's dead. Do we even have sponsors? It's not 2007 any more. Forums get a huge bad rap from young enthusiasts for the very thing thats going on in this thread. A bunch of old guys bitching and being generally jerks.


The only people in this thread that are upset are the ones that have not bought anything. A bunch of info tight wads and purist want to drive off a guy who is offering pretty unique shit for an old plat form



Like why do you care so much? Becuase you have to go to another site to see prices?


And just to be clear it was a 7k header exhaust I got for 4300. Ecs did 50% off once. Since than at most it was 20% off usually 15%.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

We don't have sponsors because we are not seeking sponsors. That was a deliberate decision made when creating this forum due to what often devolves into sponsors trying to control narratives.

I do care about having to go to another site to see prices. Particularly because it requires registration and forces you to disclose your name, address, etc all without there being any sort of privacy policy. If it was a simple "Click here to see price" or "Add to cart to see price" like most other entities that try to get around MAP, that would be less problematic.

As far as the "a bunch of old guys bitching and being generally jerks" -- I think there's only one person being uncivil here, and it certainly isn't me.

I have not bought anything from EC. Not because I don’t like the products of Group Buys he has offered. Rather because I already have most of these popular items. If I didn’t already own I would likely jump on several of these GB prices he gets.
Terra I’ve interacted with you on forums since you owned a ZHP when you were like 18. I’ve noticed and felt over all these years you’re very reasonable and rationale. But is this only about how it affects the forum? Or maybe more about your personal disdain you’re bringing up for reasons you stated above? (which I understand sentiment but that’s a personal stance that varies from individual).

I don’t see how moving him from GB sub forum is helpful other than to make his GBs less visible. He runs GBs for a set time for a set number of slots. Then it’s done. That’s different from a Vendor who sells his publicly listed products every day. Since there’s no sponsorship fees (I’m aware of) I don’t see how he’s circumventing anything of fees and needs to be reined in. But maybe I’m missing something about how that is run behind the scenes.

My concern is mostly with the forum. I personally don't get a good vibe from the guy, but I'm trying not to make a decision based on that.

It's not so much about making his posts less visible, but rather making non-commercial posts more visible.

I had no idea that 30% off msrp (if what tones says is accurate) is easily attained on the regular with respect to SS exhaust stuf. You sure about that?

Edit: I also strongly think I'd rather have 30% and not 25% or 20% when the bill is many thousands.



This sounds more in-line with what my thinking was concerning the GB and SS discounts.

Schmiedmann fairly regularly does 25-30. And I want to say they did 35% fairly recently. The 50% hasn't happened since the ECS sale

[Will]

Seems like usdmej has the pulse on his activities. I didn't know he memory-holed the fear mongering posts or that he was using multiple accounts to manage his image. I don't like that type of behavior, but others might not mind as much or at all. If the discounts are sufficient, then there will be buyers. No need for manipulative behavior like that, in my opinion.

People seemed to have liked the discounts for the GBs, so that's good. It does appear he's a vendor, and thus I think should be categorized as one.

If his value to the community is discounts, cool. If he ends up doing something novel like Vincebar, BlueBus, CMP, FCM and flatride, Karbonius, and all those involved with the DME and coding side, even better.

Hopefully there's no repeat of the CSL wheels GB; caveat emptor.

[D-O]

I really want to know how much he makes on a group buy like the Supersprint one. That would be interesting to know.

Personally, I don't care how much he made. I don't care how much Turner or SS made either. When making a purchase I expect the vendor and manufacturer to make a profit. If they provide a good service and/or a good product then they have earned the profit.

I shopped around before participating in the SS group buy, and not even Schmiedmann could get close to the price I got. That is what I care about.

All that being said, he is clearly a vendor and should be identified as such.

Jesse

[Obioban]

I think the compromise will be to tag him as a vendor (probably should create a vendor usergroup if we haven't already), restrict the vendor usergroup from posting in the member classifieds sections, including group buys, and leave it at that. And no interest threads cluttering up the main forum from vendors. I would certainly prefer the prices be disclosed on the forum (again, it would be fairly trivial to make that visible only to registered members), but we could probably let word of mouth take care of that.

I'm not sure putting his posts in the vendors section is more accurate-- he is (AFAIK) only selling things through group buys, not as an ongoing thing on his website. I see value in tagging him as a vendor, since that's all he really is on this forum, but feel like his threads are accurately placed in the group buy section.

[usdmej]

. A bunch of info tight wads and purist want to drive off a guy who is offering pretty unique shit for an old plat form

who in this thread is trying to get rid of him?

just FYI for everyone here who is afraid of missing out on Epoustouflant sourcing products for you, him and other companies are on social media so be sure to give them a follow and never miss out on their content

https://www.instagram.com/euro.connex

i'm not arguing against entrepreneurship on this forum. for example, watching t3ddftw expand our knowledge base while developing his BlueBus product is a great example of what forums can offer that social media can't. my main rub is the shadow games and wheeling and dealing that epoustouflant does under the guise that he's a fellow enthusiast

I didn't know he memory-holed the fear mongering posts or that he was using multiple accounts to manage his image.
.

i wasn't saying that he actually had multiple accounts, but he does refer to himself and EuroConnex as different entities depending on how it suits him which i find petty as a forum member and deceiving as a vendor

We don't have sponsors because we are not seeking sponsors. That was a deliberate decision made when creating this forum due to what often devolves into sponsors trying to control narratives.

that's a good point for not offering paid sponsorships. most forums survive only because of sponsorship revenue so i'm surprised this one is still up despite that.