What oil?

[bigjae46]

Has never failed me...



🤣

[Carbonvert]

Perhaps I should rephrase it as to saying it's not as good a match to the original TWS specification as the Fuchs is. Also, the Fuchs being ester based is allegedly far more shear stable than other non-ester based oils.

Ravenol looks the closest to the old formulation of TWS to me. Very similar VI, lower pour point, higher flash point compared to Fuchs.

As we know cold start performance is one of the most important attributes in an oil for our cars if street driven. Ravenol and the original TWS have the same pour point as a 0w40.


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[Mike RT4]

Out of curiosity, how do you come to the conclusion that it's not as good? Thicker at 100*C? Seems like comparing numbers out of context doesn't tell the whole story.

Perhaps I should rephrase it as to saying it's not as good a match to the original TWS specification as the Fuchs is. Also, the Fuchs being ester based is allegedly far more shear stable than other non-ester based oils.

[IamFODI]

The one spec on there that might influence my decision is sulfated ash. Lower is better, assuming all the oils seemed roughly equivalent for my application otherwise. Too bad it's not published for all oils.

[r4dr]

Out of curiosity, how do you come to the conclusion that it's not as good? Thicker at 100*C? Seems like comparing numbers out of context doesn't tell the whole story.

[Mike RT4]

Having reviewed the original specs of Castrol TWS, the closest I have found to this is Fuchs Titan Race Pro S 10w60. Castrol's own current Edge spec is not quite as good as the old TWS. You can actually verify all this from comparing the data sheets provided earlier in this thread and judge for yourself.

	Standard	Titan Race Pro S	Castrol Edge	Castrol TWS	Shell Helix Ultra Racing	BMW Twin Power
Kinematic viscosity 100°C mm²/s	IP71	24.1	22.7	24.2	22.8	23.1
Kinematic viscosity 40°C mm²/s	IP71	163.9	160	161	151
Viscosity index (A)	IP226	179	173	179	174
Specific gravity (density) 15°C	IP160	0.869	0.853	0.864	0.846	0.845
Flash point - Celsius	IP34	200	203	200	215	250
Pour point - Celsius	IP15	-39	-39	-51	-39	-42
Sulfate ash content (% wt)		N/A	1.29	1.1	N/A
Cold crank viscosity -25°C	ASTM D5293	6100	4879
API		SL, SJ & SH	SN, CF		SN, CF	SN

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

after looking through some more reviews, i may switch back to the OEM oil via FCP. LM doesn't appear to perform as well.

[m3nt0s]

Those of you who use the BMW stuff via FCPEuro - what is the most cost effective way to do the return shipping? Does it fit in any of the USPS flat rate boxes?

As others have stated, I just hang onto all the original shipping materials that come from FCP, and pack the old oil and filter for return shipping. It’s usually $15-17 to send it all back and when asked, I just say “car parts”.

I’ve gotten the most hassle from the post office, less so from UPS or Fedex. If I’m using some third party generic shipping store, or the shipping counter at Staples, they don’t seem to care at all.

[digger]

Get a good name brand oil in correct viscosity range and you’re good to go. These days people are over thinking it for what are essentially street engines

[IamFODI]

I can’t find the documentation to confirm (probably lost on the old forum) but it seems like this could be the closest of what is available to the original blend of Castrol TWS. I remember that also had a pout point in a class of its own.

How original are we talking? TWS's provenance goes back decades at this point. :]

TWS is a great lubricant with a great history. AFAIK it has historically gotten Castrol's best tech. It's also a great example of how stellar performance requires not heavy additization, but the right additization. It didn't have the kind of everything-but-the-kitchen-sink additive package that other "boutique" oils had, and yet it -- not they -- found its way into serious race cars and OEM applications.

These days, there are several options like that. I know some people don't want to hear this, but BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60 seems to be in that class. Shell Helix Ultra, Liqui Moly, Ravenol... It's not hard to find a good lubricant in this class. Nothing has the heritage of TWS, but there are plenty of potent competitors.

[SteelGreyM]

Liqui moly!

[Carbonvert]

We're talking about Ravenol RSS 10W-60, right? (they have another 10W-60 that's for high mileage engines)

Ravenol does claim "very good detergent and dispersant characteristics", so it's probably fine for short-to-moderate oil change intervals (if not longer).

Two things to keep in mind about detergents/dispersants:

1. They compete with anti-wear and anti-friction additives, and
2. They tend to be "ashy", i.e. they leave (certain kinds of) deposits when burned.

So, if you have less detergent/dispersant, you might want to run a shorter OCI, but you could also end up with better performance in other respects. And given that anyone considering Ravenol probably won't be running long OCIs in the first place, there probably wouldn't be a loss in that respect anyway. FWIW.

I'm not saying anyone should necessarily run this oil over any other, but there's zero need to worry that it might be less street-worthy than other options. Worst-case scenario, you can use oil analysis to determine a reasonable OCI (one of the few things oil analysis is actually good for in a real-world car engine).

Yes I am talking about the Ravenol RSS 10W-60. I don’t drive my car more than 5k in a season so this might be a good choice for me.

I can’t find the documentation to confirm (probably lost on the old forum) but it seems like this could be the closest of what is available to the original blend of Castrol TWS. I remember that also had a pout point in a class of its own.


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[IamFODI]

This thread made me do some research - I haven’t looked at oil options in years. The Ravenol is interesting - I just don’t know if it has the detergents needed for street use, they advertise it for racing.

We're talking about Ravenol RSS 10W-60, right? (they have another 10W-60 that's for high mileage engines)

Ravenol does claim "very good detergent and dispersant characteristics", so it's probably fine for short-to-moderate oil change intervals (if not longer).

Two things to keep in mind about detergents/dispersants:

1. They compete with anti-wear and anti-friction additives, and
2. They tend to be "ashy", i.e. they leave (certain kinds of) deposits when burned.

So, if you have less detergent/dispersant, you might want to run a shorter OCI, but you could also end up with better performance in other respects. And given that anyone considering Ravenol probably won't be running long OCIs in the first place, there probably wouldn't be a loss in that respect anyway. FWIW.

I'm not saying anyone should necessarily run this oil over any other, but there's zero need to worry that it might be less street-worthy than other options. Worst-case scenario, you can use oil analysis to determine a reasonable OCI (one of the few things oil analysis is actually good for in a real-world car engine).

[Carbonvert]

This thread made me do some research - I haven’t looked at oil options in years. The Ravenol is interesting - I just don’t know if it has the detergents needed for street use, they advertise it for racing.

I know many brands are moving their USA versions to group 3. I decided to email Liqui Moly to check if they have done the same.

I will continue with liqui moly + ceratec

I know on your german website you advertise Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60
as vollsynthetisch - meaning it is made of only group 4 and group 5 oils
due to the regulations in Germany.

Is this the same oil that is sold in the USA? Or is the USA version based
on group 3 oils ?

It’s the same Gr. 4 based oil.

Please let me know if you have any questions

Regards,

Stefan Braun
Application Specialist
Liqui Moly USA
714-913-3928

[Flat-Six]

Those of you who use the BMW stuff via FCPEuro - what is the most cost effective way to do the return shipping? Does it fit in any of the USPS flat rate boxes?

I keep all the packing from FCP, repack the old oil and filter, and ship Fedex....around $15.00. For me, the ease of using the FCP packing and Fedex is not worth trying to save another $5 or so for other methods....I'm old and lazy.