What oil?

[JamesSJ1]

have always done either the castrol or the original bmw oil. Gonna give liqui moly a try this time around from FCP. So the second time I order this from them, I can ship my oil and filter back, theyll refund me for it and recycle the oil for me? If i purchase the second one through paypal, I can utilize their free return policy to save the $15 on return shipping?

Yes, the second order needs to be through PayPal because that is technically the one you're returning that FCP will provide the refund against.

[IamFODI]

10W-60 X-Power
No additional additives or anything.

Interesting. Thanks.

AFAIK there are three possible reasons why oil temps might be lower:

1. Lower viscosity (esp. in high shear conditions), thus more flow, thus better cooling
2. Lower friction due to formulation
3. Worse heat conductivity

Would be interesting to try to figure out which one is happening with this oil.

[Tbonem3]

That is an amazing benefit. 12x per year up to $30

Up to $30 each time right? Not $30 total per year. That would only cover 2 boxes, though that's better than nothing.

[zing]

Purchase using PayPal, use free return shipping service from PayPal. Little known benefit, perfect for this situation.

have always done either the castrol or the original bmw oil. Gonna give liqui moly a try this time around from FCP. So the second time I order this from them, I can ship my oil and filter back, theyll refund me for it and recycle the oil for me? If i purchase the second one through paypal, I can utilize their free return policy to save the $15 on return shipping?

Wish I would have tried this sooner!

[Carbonvert]

Purchase using PayPal, use free return shipping service from PayPal. Little known benefit, perfect for this situation.

That is an amazing benefit. 12x per year up to $30

Oil temps with Motul on hot FL summer days are around 180-190 cruising. The only time it goes above 210 is when I spend 10 seconds above 4500 rpm. TWS was always around 215 under the same conditions. Highway cruising was 205 to 210. It also doesn't burn at all. That's all I got for objectiveness because I'm not getting that deep into it until after I take Chem. Then I'll sort of know something useful.

That is a pretty significant temp difference. TWS and Liqui Moly sit at 210 cruising during the cooler NE summers.


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[JamesSJ1]

I keep all the packing from FCP, repack the old oil and filter, and ship Fedex....around $15.00. For me, the ease of using the FCP packing and Fedex is not worth trying to save another $5 or so for other methods....I'm old and lazy.

Purchase using PayPal, use free return shipping service from PayPal. Little known benefit, perfect for this situation.

[Arith2]

Which Motul?

10W-60 X-Power
No additional additives or anything.

[IamFODI]

Oil temps with Motul on hot FL summer days are around 180-190 cruising. The only time it goes above 210 is when I spend 10 seconds above 4500 rpm. TWS was always around 215 under the same conditions. Highway cruising was 205 to 210. It also doesn't burn at all. That's all I got for objectiveness because I'm not getting that deep into it until after I take Chem. Then I'll sort of know something useful.

Which Motul?

[IamFODI]

My understanding of the CCS figure was that it was just used to confirm the oil's viscosity rating?:

CCS Test Limits in SAE J300:

SAE Viscosity Grade : CCS (mPa.s)

• 0W : 6200 @ -35ºC
• 5W : 6600 @ -30ºC
• 10W : 7000 @ -25ºC
• 15W : 7000 @ -20ºC
• 20W : 9500 @ -15ºC
• 25W : 13000 @ -10ºC

CCS and MRV ratings help determine the W part of a multi-grade viscosity rating.

The limits you posted are the maximum numbers for all the grades. E.g., anything below 7000 mPa*s @ -25º C qualifies as 10W -- though per SAE specs, an oil must be labeled with the minimum W rating it meets; presumably it couldn't go too much lower before it'd also meet the 5W spec for -30º C. However, there's still room for variation within any viscosity grade.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Testdescriptions/Coldcrank25.html

[Arith2]

Oil temps with Motul on hot FL summer days are around 180-190 cruising. The only time it goes above 210 is when I spend 10 seconds above 4500 rpm. TWS was always around 215 under the same conditions. Highway cruising was 205 to 210. It also doesn't burn at all. That's all I got for objectiveness because I'm not getting that deep into it until after I take Chem. Then I'll sort of know something useful.

[Mike RT4]

Couple of understandable but important misconceptions here.

Specs like what Mike RT4 posted are related to important aspects of oil formulations, but they can't tell us which oil's formulation is "closer to" or "better than" any other in any meaningful way. A higher VI could be due to better base stocks or higher levels of polymeric additives. Lower pour point could mean more PAO or a lot of pour point depessant. Sulfated ash could come from any combination of anti-wear, anti-friction, or detergent/dispersant additives. And there's no guarantee that the numbers even mean anything in the first place because there could be batch-to-batch variations that are larger than the differences among oils. To know which formulations are more or less "like" each other, we'd have to know base stocks and additive packages in detail as well as the performance specs of the finished formulation. That stuff can't really be inferred from a spreadsheet, and oil companies aren't likely to divulge it. Actually, the real real test is how it works in actual engines. But that's even more out of reach.

Cold start performance is indeed vitally important. The best indicators of that are not pour point, but CCS and MRV. Those simulate actual pumping. Pour point just tells you at what temp the oil will no longer move, which isn't necessarily related to viscosity above that temp (honey has a lower pour point than water, but that hardly matters above 0º C). Notice the two oils in the table that have CCS numbers listed: Castrol Edge has a better number than the Fuchs even though they have identical pour points. The highest pour point on the table is -39º C, and I'm pretty sure few people here will ever cold-start an M3 in temps below that, so any extra margin on that spec is... perhaps interesting, but not meaningful in practice.

My understanding of the CCS figure was that it was just used to confirm the oil's viscosity rating?:

CCS Test Limits in SAE J300:

SAE Viscosity Grade : CCS (mPa.s)

• 0W : 6200 @ -35ºC
• 5W : 6600 @ -30ºC
• 10W : 7000 @ -25ºC
• 15W : 7000 @ -20ºC
• 20W : 9500 @ -15ºC
• 25W : 13000 @ -10ºC

[Onefastsicilian]

Anyone ever run 5w50? Hear that’s supposed to be good stuff

[Carbonvert]

Couple of understandable but important misconceptions here.

Specs like what Mike RT4 posted are related to important aspects of oil formulations, but they can't tell us which oil's formulation is "closer to" or "better than" any other in any meaningful way. A higher VI could be due to better base stocks or higher levels of polymeric additives. Lower pour point could mean more PAO or a lot of pour point depessant. Sulfated ash could come from any combination of anti-wear, anti-friction, or detergent/dispersant additives. And there's no guarantee that the numbers even mean anything in the first place because there could be batch-to-batch variations that are larger than the differences among oils. To know which formulations are more or less "like" each other, we'd have to know base stocks and additive packages in detail as well as the performance specs of the finished formulation. That stuff can't really be inferred from a spreadsheet, and oil companies aren't likely to divulge it. Actually, the real real test is how it works in actual engines. But that's even more out of reach.

Cold start performance is indeed vitally important. The best indicators of that are not pour point, but CCS and MRV. Those simulate actual pumping. Pour point just tells you at what temp the oil will no longer move, which isn't necessarily related to viscosity above that temp (honey has a lower pour point than water, but that hardly matters above 0º C). Notice the two oils in the table that have CCS numbers listed: Castrol Edge has a better number than the Fuchs even though they have identical pour points. The highest pour point on the table is -39º C, and I'm pretty sure few people here will ever cold-start an M3 in temps below that, so any extra margin on that spec is... perhaps interesting, but not meaningful in practice.

Thank you for such a detailed response. It’s been awhile since I’ve stepped into an oil thread - glad I did- I learned something.


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[IamFODI]

Ravenol looks the closest to the old formulation of TWS to me. Very similar VI, lower pour point, higher flash point compared to Fuchs.

As we know cold start performance is one of the most important attributes in an oil for our cars if street driven. Ravenol and the original TWS have the same pour point as a 0w40.

Couple of understandable but important misconceptions here.

Specs like what Mike RT4 posted are related to important aspects of oil formulations, but they can't tell us which oil's formulation is "closer to" or "better than" any other in any meaningful way. A higher VI could be due to better base stocks or higher levels of polymeric additives. Lower pour point could mean more PAO or a lot of pour point depessant. Sulfated ash could come from any combination of anti-wear, anti-friction, or detergent/dispersant additives. And there's no guarantee that the numbers even mean anything in the first place because there could be batch-to-batch variations that are larger than the differences among oils. To know which formulations are more or less "like" each other, we'd have to know base stocks and additive packages in detail as well as the performance specs of the finished formulation. That stuff can't really be inferred from a spreadsheet, and oil companies aren't likely to divulge it. Actually, the real real test is how it works in actual engines. But that's even more out of reach.

Cold start performance is indeed vitally important. The best indicators of that are not pour point, but CCS and MRV. Those simulate actual pumping. Pour point just tells you at what temp the oil will no longer move, which isn't necessarily related to viscosity above that temp (honey has a lower pour point than water, but that hardly matters above 0º C). Notice the two oils in the table that have CCS numbers listed: Castrol Edge has a better number than the Fuchs even though they have identical pour points. The highest pour point on the table is -39º C, and I'm pretty sure few people here will ever cold-start an M3 in temps below that, so any extra margin on that spec is... perhaps interesting, but not meaningful in practice.

[Zack]

Love my liquimoly 10w60 change every 7500 miles