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    Originally posted by BL92 View Post
    Good Info
    Most of it is, with some exceptions (sorry, Tbone).

    Viscosity is the most important single aspect of a lubricant, so viscosity grade is very important. However, Tbone is right that you do NOT want to choose engine oil based on that alone because there are other differences that can matter.

    The "TWS shears down to an xW-40" thing is many years old, based on rare occurrences, and even those cases it was often suspect (fuel dilution wasn't always ruled out). The factory oil's formulation has been updated several times since then and hasn't been shown to shear lower than xW-50 in years.

    He's right that some of Red Line 5W-50's viscometrics are comparable to those of an old version of Castrol TWS. We don't know how that compares to modern formulations because not all the info is published.

    He's right that one can't conclude cold start performance based on viscosity grade alone. It depends how cold you're talking about and some other obscure viscometrics.

    Red Line's products aren't lightly additized. Their race oils are light on detergent additives, but we're not talking about those here (hopefully). However, it's a VERY safe bet that Castrol/BMW's additive package is better suited for street use, as Tbone says.

    He's right that Castrol/BMW oil will be friendlier to cats than Red Line's (or basically anything from Penrite, from what I'm seeing), while retaining more than enough anti-wear properties that you don't have to worry about it.




    The people who built this engine – the only ones who have a complete picture of what it needs – strongly advise sticking to the factory oil. This isn't like other engines, where they write a spec and say everything that meets the spec is fine; they're saying "you really should use this exact particular oil." And as BMW has gone back and back-specced more modern and thinner oils for so many of its older vehicles to simplify its supply chains, they haven't touched this one – except for that one time they released a confusingly worded bulletin and then immediately retracted it.

    If you're going to insist on rolling the dice and deviating from that, at least stick to what your favorite lube manufacturer recommends. AFAICT, the only engine oil Penrite recommends for this engine is their 10 Tenths Premium 10W-60, and they actually go out of their way to say it's the only one you should choose.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot 2025-03-08 at 9.41.13 AM.png Views:	0 Size:	194.6 KB ID:	297138
    Last edited by IamFODI; 04-13-2025, 05:50 AM.
    2008 E90 M3 6MT
    Slicktop, no iDrive | Öhlins by 3DM Motorsport | Autosolutions

    2011 E90 328i 6MT
    RWD, slicktop, no iDrive

    Comment


      I have been using Motul 300V 10w40 for about 10 years.

      Comment


        Originally posted by IamFODI View Post

        Most of it is; some of it isn't (sorry, Tbone).

        Viscosity is the most important single aspect of a lubricant, so viscosity grade is very important. However, Tbone is right that you do NOT want to choose engine oil based on that alone because there are other differences that can matter.

        The "TWS shears down to an xW-40" thing is many years old, based on rare occurrences, and even those cases it was often suspect (fuel dilution wasn't always ruled out). The factory oil's formulation has been updated several times since then and hasn't been shown to shear lower than xW-50 in years.

        He's right that some of Red Line 5W-50's viscometrics are comparable to those of an old version of Castrol TWS. We don't know how that compares to modern formulations because not all the info is published.

        He's right that one can't conclude cold start performance based on viscosity grade. It depends how cold you're talking about.

        Red Line's products aren't lightly additized. Their race oils are light on detergent additives, but we're not talking about those here (hopefully). However, it's a VERY safe bet that Castrol/BMW's additive package is better suited for street use.

        He's right that Castrol/BMW oil will be friendlier to cats than Red Line's (or basically anything from Penrite, from what I'm seeing), while retaining more than enough anti-wear properties that you don't have to worry about it.




        The people who built this engine – the only ones who have a complete picture of what it needs – strongly advise sticking to the factory oil. This isn't like other engines, where they write a spec and say everything that meets the spec is fine; they're saying "you really should use this exact particular oil." And as BMW has gone back and back-specced more modern and thinner oils for so many of its older vehicles to simplify its supply chains, they haven't touched this one – except for that one time they released a confusingly worded bulletin and then immediately retracted it.

        If you're going to insist on rolling the dice and deviating from that, at least stick to what your favorite lube manufacturer recommends. AFAICT, the only engine oil Penrite recommends for this engine is their 10 Tenths Premium 10W-60, and they actually go out of their way to say it's the only one you should choose.

        Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot 2025-03-08 at 9.41.13 AM.png Views:	0 Size:	194.6 KB ID:	297138

        Love your work, Brilliant write up, thank you

        Comment


          Originally posted by ac427 View Post
          I have been using Motul 300V 10w40 for about 10 years.
          Could you provide more info? Interval changes ? Wear, Noises, RB condition, Oil pump etc etc

          Comment


            edit: looks like this deal is over


            I just got Castrol Edge 10w60 for $8 /qt from Autozone
            The page shows $12 /qt, but it will have the lower price once you add it to the cart.

            They will also give you free no-rush shipping -- not sure if there is a minimum for this, as I bought 24 quarts 😬
            Last edited by elbert; 03-12-2025, 06:53 AM.

            Comment


              Originally posted by elbert View Post
              edit: looks like this deal is over


              I just got Castrol Edge 10w60 for $8 /qt from Autozone
              The page shows $12 /qt, but it will have the lower price once you add it to the cart.

              They will also give you free no-rush shipping -- not sure if there is a minimum for this, as I bought 24 quarts 😬
              Is this the one? Sorry, new to the platform and pictures between sites certainly aren't consistent. I think it's part number 15E99B?

              Comment


                More salt on the wounds, Sorry guys lol


                My ACL STD, measured at .002



                Here are some recommended rod bearing oil clearances for various oil viscosities:

                .0015 to .0018 for 5W-20 or 20W

                .002 to .0024 for 5W-30 or 30W

                .0025 to .0029 for 10W-40 or 40W

                .0030 to .004 for 20W-50 or 50W

                .0041 to .005 for 10W-60 or 60W



                Video below


                Last edited by BL92; 04-13-2025, 04:38 AM.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by BL92 View Post
                  More salt on the wounds, Sorry guys lol


                  My ACL STD, measured at .002



                  Here are some recommended rod bearing oil clearances for various oil viscosities:

                  .0015 to .0018 for 5W-20 or 20W

                  .002 to .0024 for 5W-30 or 30W

                  .0025 to .0029 for 10W-40 or 40W

                  .0030 to .004 for 20W-50 or 50W

                  .0041 to .005 for 10W-60 or 60W



                  Video below


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB-lf4kokSQ
                  Two possibilities here. Either

                  1. These guidelines show that BMW M's choice of viscosity grade was way off base, implying that M's engineers were unaware of this longstanding industry-standard knowledge; or

                  2. The M division knew something we don't.

                  Which seems more likely to you?
                  Last edited by IamFODI; 04-13-2025, 09:13 AM.
                  2008 E90 M3 6MT
                  Slicktop, no iDrive | Öhlins by 3DM Motorsport | Autosolutions

                  2011 E90 328i 6MT
                  RWD, slicktop, no iDrive

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by IamFODI View Post
                    Two possibilities here. Either

                    1. These guidelines show that BMW M's choice of viscosity grade was way off base, implying that M's engineers were unaware of this longstanding industry-standard knowledge; or

                    2. The M division knew something we don't.

                    Which seems more likely to you?
                    How about option 3 that not following 1 or 2 blindly

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by digger View Post

                      How about option 3 that not following 1 or 2 blindly
                      Option 3 being?
                      2008 E90 M3 6MT
                      Slicktop, no iDrive | Öhlins by 3DM Motorsport | Autosolutions

                      2011 E90 328i 6MT
                      RWD, slicktop, no iDrive

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by IamFODI View Post
                        Option 3 being?
                        Not following either of bmw m or whoever came up with other guide blindly / as a blanket rule

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by digger View Post
                          Not following either of bmw m or whoever came up with other guide blindly / as a blanket rule
                          We are blind.
                          2008 E90 M3 6MT
                          Slicktop, no iDrive | Öhlins by 3DM Motorsport | Autosolutions

                          2011 E90 328i 6MT
                          RWD, slicktop, no iDrive

                          Comment


                            I don't care about oil and I'm dumb so I just use 10w-60, but I will say every time someone brings up engineers I always think about their structural or mechanical ones who developed our RACP, exhaust hub tabs, and rod bearing (early pre LCI cars, and of course BMW blamed manufacturing, which may have been true). There is engineering and then there is engineering within the corporate arena and sometimes, well..... lol.
                            3.91 | CMP Subframe & RTAB Bushings | SMG (Relocated & Rebuilt) | ESS Gen 3 Supercharger | Redish | Beisan | GC Coilovers & ARCAs | Imola Interior | RE Rasp | RE Diablo | Storm Motorwerks Paddles | Will ZCPM3 Shift Knob | Apex ARC-8 19x9, 19x9.5 | Sony XAV-AX5000 | BAVSOUND | CSL & 255 SMG Upgrades | Tiag | Vert w/Hardtop

                            Comment


                              tl;dw but those recommendations take into remain consistent given higher piston speeds/loads across?
                              2002 TiAg M3 Coupe (SMG to 6spd), 2003 Jet Black M5

                              https://www.instagram.com/individual_throttle_buddies/

                              Comment


                                After my Next oil change of Castrol Supercar i'll be switching to MOTUL 10w60 as its easily locally available where i have to import the Castrol.

                                Comment

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