Matt Farah of The Smoking Tire picks up an E46 M3

[Jimbo's M]

Ha!! Although at this point, so is the SMG... plenty of people over the years get into the car, look down and don't know what on earth to do. "Where's Park?"

maw

Put a rotary phone on the dash...probably thing it's an alarm system.

[maw1124]

In that era. Couldn't have said it better myself, except I did and you just confirmed it.

Sure... comparing it to a DCT is just silly... and not all manuals are good manuals... it beats most manuals, old or new... hell, I think it beats the manual that came in this car (same box minus the paddles etc), which is why people are farting around with shifters, flywheels and clutches... for all that just give me the damned paddles, and BMW engineers agreed. Oddly enough, the manual in the E9X cars is a REAL improvement.

But IMO, a manual transmission these days is a nostalgic novelty. Fine. So for hobby cars, nostalgic novelties may command some premium to some hard core, die hard customers. Fine.

Most customers aren't in the matrix like that, is my only point. And unless you're deep in that matrix (or think you are), you'll take the paddles and the drop top FTW. Call me Neo -- I'm not in that matrix, and I know I'm not in that matrix.

And the funny thing is, the REAL race car drivers I know (you know, the ones who employ people, pay all the bills and race for money -- not these weekend, feel good guys) agree with me.

maw

[oceansize]

Ultimately, there is a customer for anything.
Re the mods: everything you mentioned is an improvement over stock, but I agree about the trunk. Interesting that you made no mention of superchargers, though.

I'm all for everyone having what they want, modifying what they want, and driving how they want and I didn't cherry pick. All mods are a waste of money for most people, the exception being the guys who regularly track their car. I can't press my supercharged e46 m3 to its limits and neither can the guys with CSL airboxes, cams, and a tune. We each can press in short bursts but not at sustained high speeds to really discovery what the car can and can't do. CSL trunks and high end wheels are the kicker though. Let me pretend I've got a CSL, well I don't. Wheels are another one. Imma slap 10k HREs or 5k e88s on my car because I think it "looks" cool. Come on how goofy is that? And yet I do love me some good looking high end wheels. You get my drift, all pun intended.

[jet_dogg]

Sure... comparing it to a DCT is just silly... and not all manuals are good manuals... it beats most manuals, old or new... hell, I think it beats the manual that came in this car, which is why people are farting around with shifters, flywheels and clutches... for all that just give me the damned paddles, and BMW engineers agreed. Oddly enough, the manual in the E9X cars is a REAL improvement.

But IMO, a manual transmission these days is a nostalgic novelty. Fine. So for hobby cars, nostalgic novelties may command some premium to some hard core, die hard customers. Fine.

Most customers aren't in the matrix like that, is my only point. And unless you're deep in that matrix (or think you are), you'll take the paddles and the drop top FTW. Call me Neo -- I'm not in that matrix, and I know I'm not in that matrix.

maw

There is one thread about questionable flywheels and clutches in forumland (which incidentally is shared with the smg fyi) and yet a considerable percentage of these cars in the real world are being converted from the unreliable and archaic smg to the trusty manual. You may not believe this but the manual take rate in the 991.2 gt3 was more than 50% and that is vs the superior-to-smg pdk trans. Maw meet red pill.

I'm all for everyone having what they want, modifying what they want, and driving how they want and I didn't cherry pick. All mods are a waste of money for most people, the exception being the guys who regularly track their car. I can't press my supercharged e46 m3 to its limits and neither can the guys with CSL airboxes, cams, and a tune. We each can press in short bursts but not at sustained high speeds to really discovery what the car can and can't do. CSL trunks and high end wheels are the kicker though. Let me pretend I've got a CSL, well I don't. Wheels are another one. Imma slap 10k HREs or 5k e88s on my car because I think it "looks" cool. Come on how goofy is that? And yet I do love me some good looking high end wheels. You get my drift, all pun intended.

That's all fine and dandy but it's criminal to add a 200lb hardtop to an already 4-500lb heavier cab. I suppose that's why you need a blower to keep up with stock coupes 🤠

E88s are goofy though, we've had this discussion. They are the new TEs sadly but I will probably own a set with normal offsets at some point.

[maw1124]

And yet I do love me some good looking high end wheels...

Real talk... I love the 19" forged and polished stockers that came on my car... but I don't have the supercharger to lug them around (pun), and people here and in other forums have me thinking about unsprung weight at the corners being a real game changer (like "you'll never go back" game changer)... so I might be talked into some high end, lightweight, forged and polished (love the look) wheels, even if they're custom (NEEZ or something), even though that's a bit of a departure for me.

Life is all about the departures, after all. No need to dig in your heels or die on any mountaintops as far as I'm concerned. It's all a hobby game and none of it's that serious.

But then again, I'm not a hard core die hard (took the red pill at birth), which is why I own an SMG vert.

maw

[Jimbo's M]

And the funny thing is, the REAL race car drivers I know (you know, the ones who employ people, pay all the bills and race for money -- not these weekend, feel good guys) agree with me.
maw

No doubt. However, most of us here I speculate aren't REAL race car drivers and don't need/want cutting edge technology to pay the bills. Working a third pedal and rowing a shifter will be a desirable thing as times goes by AFAIC.

[oceansize]

That's all fine and dandy but it's criminal to add a 200lb hardtop to an already 4-500lb heavier cab. I suppose that's why you need a blower to keep up with stock coupes 🤠

E88s are goofy though, we've had this discussion. They are the new TEs sadly but I will probably own a set with normal offsets at some point.

The hard top weighs 60lbs as it is aluminum (see link below). I can carry it myself around the garage But yes the vert is around 350 to 400 lbs heavier and much less rigid. But..... I'm not going to the track so who cares?

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=54217123677

[maw1124]

No doubt. However, most of us here I speculate aren't REAL race car drivers and don't need/want cutting edge technology to pay the bills. Working a third pedal and rowing a shifter will be a desirable thing as times goes by AFAIC.

Of course... just ask the Porsche guys, who are often busy tripping over themselves trying to prove how hard core they are, with the carbon brakes that never get warm enough to work properly... and the 6MT they barely know how to drive... and paying tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege of turning it in 3 years later for a Panamera or Macan that they can actually handle. SMDH

Nostalgic novelties... I'm all good with it... we just don't need to try to pass it off as "better". I agree the 6MT here is more reliable and easier to maintain though, but that can be the subject of some trading. If it was about ease of maintenance we'd all be in Hondas.

maw

[01SG]

Subjective preference aside, manuals and coupes are not worth more for intangible reasons. The manual will always be more involving, and that's what most people looking for a car like this want. Then there is the rarity factor as they stop making them. Plenty of people, myself included, would not buy the car at all if it only came as SMG.

And the convertible is very much noticeably heavier and less rigid. I certainly feel the difference of a few hundred pounds between the 36 and 46. The difference in driving feel between the coupe and vert is noticeable at all times, not only on track. And why not but a z4 m roadster at that point? Do you really need the back seats?

As for 996 vs 997, the 996 is a mess, the engines were blowing up like mad in the early 2000s. Besides that, they are the ugliest and cheapest feeling/looking 911 ever made. The 997 is better in basically every way, besides maybe the early 996 cable throttle.

And finally, my father drove the z8 and hated it. The z8 is a work of art, but I believe they came with run-flat tires and no LSD. It needs some work to be turned into a proper drive.

These are not "forumland" opinions with no merit.

And I for one don't give a damn about modern racing or race car drivers. Real racing to me was the era of Fangio, Clark, Lauda...when they drove manuals and had no driver aids.

[maw1124]

Subjective preference aside...

And if one doesn't have a subjective preference for lighter, stiffer, manual transmission cars, what happens?

Are E46M cars only for those who have such a preference, and that's why BMW shouldn't have built SMG cars or heavier convertibles?

I mean, did you really start with "subjective preference aside" and then spend the rest of the post articulating a "subjective preference" for lighter, stiffer, manual transmission cars?

Or did I miss something?

I had a subjective preference for a 4-seater drop top that I don't need two feet to drive. And I'm not alone. But I recognize that as a subjective preference, not some authoritarian pronouncement of betterment. Forumland is what adds the air of authoritarian pronouncement.

maw

[Jimbo's M]

Do you really need the back seats?

Whether it's the case here or not, no idea, but I know back seats were crammed into some cars to lower insurance rates.

[Albino09]

Just to provide (maybe) a little bit of clarity to this initial discussion about the car. He recently did a video challenge vs. Zack where they tried to "make a better SUV" for under $10k. Matt chose to put rally suspension and nice tires on an E46 325i touring. He's since said he loved the beat wagon so much, he realized the value of the platform and decided to buy the nicest E46 M3 he could find. He also had an existing relationship with the EAG guys and knowingly paid the premium so he knew he was buying a car that needed nothing.

Overall his decision to buy and post about it online is only good for us. Someone with influence (whether you agree with them or not) will drive up values in a positive way.

I forgot, he did kind of act a little high and mighty about the low mileage and condition of the car like, "have you ever seen such a mint car?" So I made a wise crack that he should see mine (180k miles). He blew me off

Shame he was being a douche about it at the C&C. I'm also looking forward to hearing what he and Zack do with their cars. I'd REALLY love to know more about what Steve Dinan did to Zack's suspension.

[Obioban]

I’m not sure values going up is a good thing 😜

[oceansize]

I don't like the values going up, I want a coupe and always have my eyes open but I'm going to have to pay more to play now. I also feel prices are more about inflation rather than appreciation, at the moment, and there could be a correction. I don't think anything drastic but nonetheless a small correction.

[shibui]

I’m not sure values going up is a good thing 😜

You know, I thought it was at first. But for those of us who don't plan to sell / have our forever car in the E46 M3, it doesn't really do anything for us does it?

Other than raise the barrier for reentrance if we ever wanted to buy a second, lower mileage one. 😂

I am glad the car still gets praise from "those in the know" journalists 20 years later though.