The Official Bring A Trailer (BaT) Thread

[oceansize]

Knowing markets the way I do, I'm almost certain that's one level of game playing. Also the fact that we have zero visibility on "sales" not consummated. I can't track down the irrational bidders, other than (1) dealers bidding up their buddies' cars and (2) never actually parting with the money or title changing hands.

maw

And the too long didn't read is this from the rennlist post:

TLDR: franchise dealers are on both sides of these BaT sales. They give allocations to independents, the independents sell on BaT, and then franchise dealers buy the cars back and CPO them. BaT is the laundromat in the middle that turns dealer-to-dealer flips into "market comps." I always assumed flippers were a separate cohort of folks. They aren't. And I am not saying all porsche dealers are in on this but quite a few are. I am sorry this post got long. I've been researching this thing for weeks. That's where I've been if you're wondering.

47% of 130 sales from BAT are from dealers, but here's the thing: there's not a single Porsche franchise dealer selling on BaT in this entire dataset. Every seller is an independent. These are independent dealer principals who are getting GT3 allocations from Porsche franchise dealers and listing them on BaT.

WOB is a consignment shop in Thousand Oaks run by Robert Dietz. Their website (wobcars.com) openly advertises what they do: "You can count on us to have your car sold at a premium price." They call themselves "the largest curator of cars" on BaT, say they sell 50+ vehicles a month on the platform, and work on commission that scales with the value of the car. They even brag about setting the record for the highest-selling 992 GT3 Touring on BaT. This is all on their website. They've sold 12 GT3s on BaT for $4.1M. That's one operator doing almost 10% of the entire BaT 992 GT3 market by dollar volume. I looked at who's buying WOB's GT3s. Out of 12 buyers, three are confirmed dealer pipelines — Freddy_308 (cars at Eurocars OC), meepcars (Hendrick → Porsche SLO), Shahabi (Cardinale → Porsche Edison). That's $863k in confirmed dealer volume — 21% of WOB's GT3 output going to accounts I can tie directly to dealer lots. Four more buyers look like dealers too — JimDiaz (same-month account, $384k), Petrus2000 (no account data available), SRNYC (6-month account, $327k), and speedman9000 (22-month account, $457k). Two more — Ksw ($447k) and Andrew109 ($270k) — already have their VINs back on resale platforms. That leaves three of WOB's 12 GT3 buyers who appear to be actual people keeping a car. And sure you can "purchase" a car and flip it as a consumer, but please if you're pretending to be a consumer and its ending up on a dealer lot...

[maw1124]

Did you see the thread on rennlist talking about BAT and GT3 prices which strongly alludes to price manipulation amongst dealers? Interesting read, IMO there is no proof, but I wouldn't be shocked if that is occurring.

Knowing markets the way I do, I'm almost certain that's one level of game playing. Also the fact that we have zero visibility on "sales" not consummated. I can't track down the irrational bidders, other than (1) dealers bidding up their buddies' cars and (2) never actually parting with the money or title changing hands.

maw

EDIT... oceansize thanks for this... I completely missed the need for an intermediary because OEM police their dealers... all makes total sense now.

[02_lsb]

I think it's the photography.

no. Pretty sure it’s meth.

[Tbonem3]

Is this for real life? WTF just happened?

it’s a titanium silver with 125k. How?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-m3-coupe-231/

I think it's the photography.

[simon_c]

I think the worst part is now someone of us (myself included) may be overvaluing our cars but maybe this is the new market?

[simon_c]

of course...I was saying it's around a $25k car, not $50k.

Somebody offers me $50k for mine and I probably take it.

It'll only really happen on a place like BaT though but I'm in the same boat. Really has me thinking about listing but honestly don't really want to deal with the BaT crowd and the whole process.

[0-60motorsports]

$25k at best. It's silver! If this wasn't on BaT and was posted on Facebook, it'd have 100+ comments saying that the seller is on crack and "does it come with extra $25k in the trunk?" It's total bullshit that Bringatrailer and Cars&Bids censors and hides any comments that aren't ass-kissing or boosting the auction.

this!

[tnord]

of course...I was saying it's around a $25k car, not $50k.

Somebody offers me $50k for mine and I probably take it.

[EthanolTurbo]

I don't mind silver, and can look past it especially for a slicktop and cinnamon. To me the spec is an overall positive, certainly better than PY!

Of course... but not for $50k+. WAY better cars than a silver E46 M3 for $50k.

[tnord]

$25k at best. It's silver! If this wasn't on BaT and was posted on Facebook, it'd have 100+ comments saying that the seller is on crack and "does it come with extra $25k in the trunk?" It's total bullshit that Bringatrailer and Cars&Bids censors and hides any comments that aren't ass-kissing or boosting the auction.

I don't mind silver, and can look past it especially for a slicktop and cinnamon. To me the spec is an overall positive, certainly better than PY!

[Slideways]

Did you see the thread on rennlist talking about BAT and GT3 prices which strongly alludes to price manipulation amongst dealers? Interesting read, IMO there is no proof, but I wouldn't be shocked if that is occurring.

That coupled with the inaccurate data of cars marked as sold even though the sale fell through.

[EthanolTurbo]

what do we think is the real value of this car? Looks like a decent condition car with a couple of good options, but I don't see specifics addressing big3. $25k?

$25k at best. It's silver! If this wasn't on BaT and was posted on Facebook, it'd have 100+ comments saying that the seller is on crack and "does it come with extra $25k in the trunk?" It's total bullshit that Bringatrailer and Cars&Bids censors and hides any comments that aren't ass-kissing or boosting the auction.

[simon_c]

So who’s going to list their car now 🙂

[EthanolTurbo]

I think people get tunnel vision on auction sites like BAT, things get out of hand quickly and they end up overspending by what, 20-30% or more? Then they just lean into the character of the rich guy who wanted it so bad he doesn't care about the price, to I guess look like a baller in front of the dumbest car audience on the internet. There's no chance that dude isn't experiencing buyer's remorse for that price right now unless he's actually a complete numbskull.

Seriously, those guys in the BaT comments sre absolute morons: "Well *I*was gonna pay $55k for this 100k+ miles car with nothing redeeming other than cinnamon and slicktop for 30k more than it's worth! Haha good show old chum, glad you beat me!"

They're like baboons with big, bright red asses except the ass has mutated and migrated to their brain cavity.

[tnord]

I think people get tunnel vision on auction sites like BAT, things get out of hand quickly and they end up overspending by what, 20-30% or more? Then they just lean into the character of the rich guy who wanted it so bad he doesn't care about the price, to I guess look like a baller in front of the dumbest car audience on the internet. There's no chance that dude isn't experiencing buyer's remorse for that price right now unless he's actually a complete numbskull.

what do we think is the real value of this car? Looks like a decent condition car with a couple of good options, but I don't see specifics addressing big3. $25k?