what tool to test the SMG pressure accumulator by itself?

[chalaka]

do anyone know what's the tool to look for to test the SMG pressure accumulator when it's off the car?

was browsing around on ebay and amazon, searching for the tool to test "nitrogen pressure accumulator" ..
but not sure which is the cheapest, most effective and easy operation one to get ~

have a spared part for like over 5 years~ not sure if it's still working well, and it would be a big PITA to find out the hard way after i put it onto the car ..

thank you~
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by the way,
can SMG owners or experts who can help to share some insights as well~

symptom:
- car drops out of gear for period of time
- lost gear, shows N
- cruise for a while (suspect it's building back pressure)
- pops back to same gear, or lower gear #, car's back to motion and in control
- drive for a while, drops out of gear
- cruise for a while, back to gear and repeats

background1:
- car was having other gear issue, changed with used GPS and gear actuator (in pair)
- drove fine for a very short time, then new symptoms happened

background2:
- 2002 m3, old pump, old motor, new salmon
- slave cylinder changed for like 2 years ago ..

discovery:
- when doing inpa bleeding, notice high pitch hissing sound ( so i assume it's leaking somewhere?)
- when key in, dash shows N gear much slower than before (so i assume, either GPS is acting up or pressure is not there quick enough to detect gear)
- SMG oil level is not really dropping (last time i checked)

am i on the right track?

my plan is to lift up the car,
(1) run inpa bleeding, and see if i can spot the "leaking spot" or figure out where the hissing is coning from first..
(2) change out pressure accumulator from the donor pump

[oceansize]

SMG Codes?

Motor is probably on its way out as well but you didn't list mileage so not sure how much your car has been driven.

Assuming the problem is within the pump and not something else then you have three problem areas: Motor, seals/o-rings, and accumulator. Could be any or a combination of all three.

1. How many seconds does the first pump prime take after sitting all night?
2. When driving (or monitoring using INPA) how many shifts to you get before the pump kicks back on?
3. Using INPA you can monitor SMG pump pressure. How fast do you lose pressure after the pump builds?

[oceansize]

I did forget you can test the accumulator using DIS or the Schwaben/Foxwell tool while it is on the car. Old thread where I was discussing with eacmen.

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...-pressure-test

[eacmen]

Pressure testing it at the banjo fitting is a good health check. Bad accum will drop oil pressure quickly after engine shuts off.


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[sapote]

do anyone know what's the tool to look for to test the SMG pressure accumulator [SIZE=14px]when it's off the car?

By a cheap bottle jack, a pressure gauge, and machine an adapter from the jack top to the ACC connector. The instruction of how to tell if the ACC (sphere in the Citroen) is empty or still has good charge.

http://www.schaalbouw.nl/citroen/sphrtstr.htm

[chalaka]

SMG Codes?

Motor is probably on its way out as well but you didn't list mileage so not sure how much your car has been driven.

Assuming the problem is within the pump and not something else then you have three problem areas: Motor, seals/o-rings, and accumulator. Could be any or a combination of all three.

1. How many seconds does the first pump prime take after sitting all night?

2. When driving (or monitoring using INPA) how many shifts to you get before the pump kicks back on?

3. Using INPA you can monitor SMG pump pressure. How fast do you lose pressure after the pump builds?

1. How many seconds does the first pump prime take after sitting all night?
sounded quick, didn't notice much difference than before, i assume the motor is still ok. but i do have a MLR motor in hand
2. When driving (or monitoring using INPA) how many shifts to you get before the pump kicks back on?
when problems occurs. i barely can shift, probably just 1 shift, from 2nd to 3rd, cruise, then drop to N, waited couple seconds (roughly 15s ish) then pops back
3. Using INPA you can monitor SMG pump pressure. How fast do you lose pressure after the pump builds?
during cold start, i am able to drive for like 15minutes city drive to do my smog check, then problems occurs

Car background:
same pump since 2007 when i first got it..
mileages is around 210K km

i did prep the seal oring for the pump + new motor ... just the accumulator is currently on a spare old pump came off from a 2004 car ..
so i am hoping to perform some kind of rebuilt service on current pump while it's out ..
but the accumulator's condition is a big questions

[chalaka]

By a cheap bottle jack, a pressure gauge, and machine an adapter from the jack top to the ACC connector. The instruction of how to tell if the ACC (sphere in the Citroen) is empty or still has good charge.

http://www.schaalbouw.nl/citroen/sphrtstr.htm

wow, looks complicated..

i was hoping to buy something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzabJKeRyY0

was wondering if i can take out the accumulator and screw onto a "tester" and test out the pressure or something

[chalaka]

I did forget you can test the accumulator using DIS or the Schwaben/Foxwell tool while it is on the car. Old thread where I was discussing with eacmen.

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...-pressure-test

thank you, i will take out INPA and try to figure out how to test pressure with it on car then ..

[sapote]

wow, looks complicated..

i was hoping to buy something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzabJKeRyY0

was wondering if i can take out the accumulator and screw onto a "tester" and test out the pressure or something

The video show he use the gauge to check the black box pressure. However the ACC when removed from car has zero pressure at the connector, and this is why you need something (bottle jack in my case) to create that high pressure to compress the N2 gas chamber in the ACC, and depend on how the gauge showing the pressure changing profile, one can tell the N2 chamber is empty, low, or still has enough charged gas. IOW, without a pressure source to compress the N2 chamber in the ACC, nothing to learn about the ACC.

The YT video title is misleading.

[chalaka]

The video show he use the gauge to check the black box pressure. However the ACC when removed from car has zero pressure at the connector, and this is why you need something (bottle jack in my case) to create that high pressure to compress the N2 gas chamber in the ACC, and depend on how the gauge showing the pressure changing profile, one can tell the N2 chamber is empty, low, or still has enough charged gas. IOW, without a pressure source to compress the N2 chamber in the ACC, nothing to learn about the ACC.

The YT video title is misleading.

ah~ i see..
thank you Sapote, for the explanation


since i don't have the machinery or milling skills and tools ..
maybe i can utilize the spare smg pump, somehow make it into a bench testing model .. (ah .. long long long long term project XD )

so hopeless at this moment, guess i will just swap the accumulator, while change out the orings and motors then ..

something is leaking, causing the pressure drop .. hope it's not at the paws like actuator part ..

[eacmen]

Pressure testing it at the banjo fitting is a good health check. Bad accum will drop oil pressure quickly after engine shuts off.


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I’m an idiot. I thought you were trying to test VANOS. Ignore this post.

Same principle applies for SMG though. You can monitor SMG pressure and if it drops quickly then accum is bad.


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[sapote]

Same principle applies for SMG though. You can monitor SMG pressure and if it drops quickly then accum is bad.

It's hard to say the quick drop is caused by empty ACC, or a major internal leak. How can you tell?

[chalaka]

I’m an idiot. I thought you were trying to test VANOS. Ignore this post.

Same principle applies for SMG though. You can monitor SMG pressure and if it drops quickly then accum is bad.


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no bro, appreciate your input ..
i was just wondering where the banjo bolts is at