Trying to decide: e46 M3 vs F82 M4 vs 997.2

[Aeko]

Okay NOW we're getting somewhere. Drove as many cars as I could today and here are the ones I liked in order:

2017 M2 Base - Overall, really good. Love the steering, love the handling, size is decent. Not a huge fan of the turbo motors but this one was pretty satisfying. I'm curious about the Comp vs Base as far as features and comfort go. Also sound wise. The n55 sound I liked.

E92 M3 - Love it, but I think the one I drove had issues with the power steering. It took twice as much effort to steer it as my e46 M3, so I can't say for certain on the feel. LOVE the S65 and DCT, amazing combo. More space than the M2 so that's a slight bonus. I definitely would consider replacing my M5 with one of these.

Q60 Redsport - Even though this is more of a car I'd pick as a daily because it errs more on the side of comfort, I did really like it. Extremely nice interior quality, quick, handled decently. Steering was light but decent. Again, more of a daily spec car.

C7 Vette - Drove it just because, and I overall did like it. It didn't feel *as* claustrophobic as some of the other 2 seaters because it has the cargo space directly behind you, and I think that would be doable for similar cars (like the Supra, but ran out of time today to test one). The auto is really slow though.

Mach 1 - It's good "on paper." But the feel and build quality left me really wanting more for the price. The steering felt like it had sand running through it or something, it felt gritty at any speed. The interior material quality was average at best. The C7 had much nicer build quality. Engine and 10 speed were good.

I'm having a hard time finding Caymans but I still want to drive one of those and a 135i or 1M if I can find one.

At this point I'm probably going to be searching in tandem for a few cars and buy whatever pops up as a good deal for a clean example. I'm gravitating to the M2 and 997.2 with the E92 M3 being in a close third.

P.s. Nate was kind enough to reach out to me and we resolved our issues. All is well.

[heinzboehmer]

I'm having a hard time finding Caymans but I still want to drive one of those and a 135i or 1M if I can find one.

1M only came in manual. 135is sounds like what you would want. Basically a 135i but with the E9x M3 DCT.

[Aeko]

1M only came in manual. 135is sounds like what you would want. Basically a 135i but with the E9x M3 DCT.

If I really like the 1M it would be a pretty easy ZF8 swap. There's lots of support for it on the N54 especially.

[heinzboehmer]

If I really like the 1M it would be a pretty easy ZF8 swap. There's lots of support for it on the N54 especially.

Ah fair enough! Wasn't sure how open to swaps you were. Coolest thing about the 1M is all the E9x M3 components it has.

IMO, ultimate swap (of that gen) is an S65 into a 1M (or other 1 series with all the M body panels).

Only bad thing about 1Ms is that they're not super easy to find. There's a ton in Mexico, but a pain to import

[stephen]

Could also find a 335is. N54 and DCT

[Aeko]

Ah fair enough! Wasn't sure how open to swaps you were. Coolest thing about the 1M is all the E9x M3 components it has.

IMO, ultimate swap (of that gen) is an S65 into a 1M (or other 1 series with all the M body panels).

For my needs I may very well have to auto swap something, which I'm open to if it's feasible and has been done before. I don't have the kind of money to pay someone to CNC a custom adapter and do a custom TCU setup.

I had a similar thought about the S65 in an e46! I feel like it would pair really well with that chassis. I really liked the S65 enough I want to find another e9x to try because I'm convinced the one I drove had something wrong, possibly with the servotronic.

Could also find a 335is. N54 and DCT

I'm keeping an eye out for one. Finding one that hasn't absolutely been beaten to hell and back is a chore, though.

I'm still trying to see if I can find a 135i to test drive but apparently that's a tall order as well. There's one place near me that has one but they haven't picked up their phone and that's usually not a great sign imo

[IamFODI]

Steering is one of the few driving-engagement-related things the E9x M3 does better than the E46 M3. If you didn’t think it felt right, definitely try another.

E9x is definitely in a weird no-man’s land between M3 and M5, IMO. I can see looking at it as more of an M5 replacement than an M3 replacement.

I drove an automatic C7 and thought the auto was catastrophically bad, especially for that kind of car. Hard to imagine it’s the same trans as BMW uses.

As a rule, for any significant engine/trans swap, you should assume you’re giving up some reliability (often a lot). Some notable exceptions (e.g. E46 SMG to MT), but in general the amount of stuff you have to tear into, mod, re-code, etc. almost guarantees weird issues at some point. You said this is a weekend car so maybe this wouldn’t be much of a problem for you. Still, I’d think it’d be best to stick to:

1. Cars that are auto stock, and
2. Maybe, at a push, cars that had an auto option (and when you swap, pick the trans that was the option for that car).

Also, most manual cars will command a significant price premium over their auto counterparts. You’d be throwing that money away by swapping it. Far more cost-effective to find something that’s auto to begin with. E.g., instead of looking for a 1M, find an auto or DCT E82 and swap over all the 1M suspension bits etc.

[bigjae46]

The F82 is bigger than an E92. Just a thought.

If you want something DIY-able then an E46 M3 is the route to go. They require a lot more stuff than an E9X and later but are also much easier to wrench on.

The E9X M3 is probably the middle ground of hell for DIYing because it does require wrenching in a crowded engine bay. The F8X is relatively reliable and low maintenance.

If it were me, I'd get into an F87 M2 Comp.

[Icecream]

The F82 is bigger than an E92. Just a thought.

If you want something DIY-able then an E46 M3 is the route to go. They require a lot more stuff than an E9X and later but are also much easier to wrench on.

The E9X M3 is probably the middle ground of hell for DIYing because it does require wrenching in a crowded engine bay. The F8X is relatively reliable and low maintenance.

If it were me, I'd get into an F87 M2 Comp.

Another reason to look at the e63 M6. I have never worked on an e9x, but I can say there is nothing so far that is more difficult on the M6 compared to the e46. I'd even venture to say some parts are easier just because it is better designed or lighter (getting the subframe down for example) or the perfectly designed access holes to get the plenum clamps off.
Oil changes are fine, I do miss pumping from the top but that's an issue on all new cars, and access to transmission/suspension maintenance is about the same. Really check it out man, if you're local to me, you can even drive mine.

[EthanolTurbo]

Another reason to look at the e63 M6. I have never worked on an e9x, but I can say there is nothing so far that is more difficult on the M6 compared to the e46. I'd even venture to say some parts are easier just because it is better designed or lighter (getting the subframe down for example) or the perfectly designed access holes to get the plenum clamps off.
Oil changes are fine, I do miss pumping from the top but that's an issue on all new cars, and access to transmission/suspension maintenance is about the same. Really check it out man, if you're local to me, you can even drive mine.

E60 M5 and E63 M6 are definitely winners. Just kind of baller with the MPG 😂

[bigjae46]

E60 M5 and E63 M6 are definitely winners. Just kind of baller with the MPG 😂

I’ve owned my E90 M3 since new. Love it except for the cup holders (could you think of a worse design?) and the fuel economy gets kinda rough when 93 approaches $5/gal. 🤣

[IamFODI]

Another reason to look at the e63 M6. I have never worked on an e9x, but I can say there is nothing so far that is more difficult on the M6 compared to the e46. I'd even venture to say some parts are easier just because it is better designed or lighter (getting the subframe down for example) or the perfectly designed access holes to get the plenum clamps off.
Oil changes are fine, I do miss pumping from the top but that's an issue on all new cars, and access to transmission/suspension maintenance is about the same. Really check it out man, if you're local to me, you can even drive mine.

E60 M5 and E63 M6 are definitely winners. Just kind of baller with the MPG 😂

S85 is a bit fragile though, right? Not in the sense of blowing up but there's all kinds of expensive stuff that breaks on it. S65 fixes a lot of those problems.

I haven't found my S65 to be hard to work on. Can't say it's easier than an S54 (never wrenched on one) but I'm finding it hard to think of things that need regular service or commonly break that are hard to get to.

I do also miss pumping oil from the top, though. Would make things so much easier at oil change time.

[Icecream]

S85 is a bit fragile though, right? Not in the sense of blowing up but there's all kinds of expensive stuff that breaks on it. S65 fixes a lot of those problems.

I haven't found my S65 to be hard to work on. Can't say it's easier than an S54 (never wrenched on one) but I'm finding it hard to think of things that need regular service or commonly break that are hard to get to.

I do also miss pumping oil from the top, though. Would make things so much easier at oil change time.

Not really, some issues plague both platforms equally (throttle actuators, injectors, ionic modules, the rare valve spring etc). If you get an LCI you save alot of headache on the S85 specific stuff. The biggest issue was the vanos pump. It is more fragile and difficult to properly reinstall on early models and a mistake there will grenade the pump (or it will grenade from the design itself). The later ones have a more robust design and don't fail. The early ones also had an internal high pressure vanos line that would leak. This was fixed in later models and can be updated or changed when doing the rod bearings.
Vanos solenoids can also go, cleaning and new seals will probably fix most of that. And plan for an oil cooler, they seem to leak as miles go up. LCI is key.
On mine I did oil cooler, rod bearings, injectors and spark plugs preemptively, starter, transmission fluid flush. Then of course you do have smg stuff to worry about but overall that is much improved over the e46.

[EthanolTurbo]

S85 is a bit fragile though, right? Not in the sense of blowing up but there's all kinds of expensive stuff that breaks on it. S65 fixes a lot of those problems.

I haven't found my S65 to be hard to work on. Can't say it's easier than an S54 (never wrenched on one) but I'm finding it hard to think of things that need regular service or commonly break that are hard to get to.

I do also miss pumping oil from the top, though. Would make things so much easier at oil change time.

Ice Cream already covered it but they're really not that bad. It's just not a car you can run on a budget, gotta take care of the maintenance and it's solid. I think I saw a guy with 200k+ miles even on stock rod bearings.

[t44tq]

1M only came in manual. 135is sounds like what you would want. Basically a 135i but with the E9x M3 DCT.

The N55 powered 135i "auto" transmission is the same DCT as the 135is and very similar to the DCT in the E9x M3.