clutch switch help / code 50

[bagger]

I originally posted something in hopes to help someone else out in this thread: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...d-stalls/page3

I just experienced my first stalls just today in parking lot traffic and making a 90 degree turn. Got it home and immediately looked for codes, and got this one: 'DME: switch chain, frictional connection" which was new to me. There are some threads here about this, and apparently it's related to the clutch switch. I verified that mine is crap via INPA because when I press the clutch in and out the "status grip switch" is always on (instead of being on and off). So there's another thing you can check out in your hunt to figure it out.

I wanted to start a new thread as to not hijack that one.

I ordered a new clutch switch from ECS: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/61319122700/

Got the new clutch switch this AM and swapped it out. Pretty simple job. I then hooked up INPA and noticed that INPA was showing "status grip switch" as on and off as I pressed and depressed the clutch with the key in position 2. I figured I was good to go so just started the car to make sure it still started ok. But then I noticed that "switch grip status" is just stuck in the on position all the time like it was prior. I restarted the car a couple times, unplugged the clutch switch and replugged it - but now it's just showing the status as on all the time.

I haven't test driven the car because the weather is junk here right now. No error codes yet after I cleared them before I swapped out the clutch switch. But I'm guessing that one might come back after a test drive.

A couple of other things - the previous clutch switch physically looked fine, and the 4 cables that plug into it all seem fine too. I did notice the box that came from ECS was clearly opened at some point, so who knows if someone returned a bad one to them at some point or not. It's just weird that it worked fine as far as showing switch grip status on and off with the key in position 2 just fine, and then all went to crap after starting it once. My 2004 car is not a swap, it's a factory manual.

Perhaps my issue isn't the clutch switch? Thanks.

[bagger]

I am going to return this one for a new/unopened box and see if that does the trick. But I still find it odd that it seemed fine per the switch grip status in INPA until I started the car.

[tlow98]

I am going to return this one for a new/unopened box and see if that does the trick. But I still find it odd that it seemed fine per the switch grip status in INPA until I started the car.

I don’t think the new one has been tested by enough people to know if it’s truly a 1:1 swap with the ‘brown’ clutch switch. I went down this road recently, as well, but sadly don’t have a lot to add.

looking forward to see if anyone else knows anything!

[terra]

The switch is in series with the gear position sensor on the transmission. Since when you started the car the transmission is in neutral, the status won’t change in INPA.

[bagger]

I don’t think the new one has been tested by enough people to know if it’s truly a 1:1 swap with the ‘brown’ clutch switch. I went down this road recently, as well, but sadly don’t have a lot to add.

looking forward to see if anyone else knows anything!

Thanks for the comment. Yeah, I've read about the fun people had a couple years ago with tracking that down and some mishap with part numbers there. FWIW the one I replaced was also black for whatever that is worth. My clutch was replaced at some point during previous ownership per some service records I have.

[bagger]

The switch is in series with the gear position sensor on the transmission. Since when you started the car the transmission is in neutral, the status won’t change in INPA.

Thanks. So with the key in position 2, should the status change? What about with the key in position 3 as I row through the gears? No matter what I try - it just says "on" now.

[AWE46M3]

MPartsWW has 2 OG NLA Brown Clutch Switches for sale on ebay (280-300). Buy a used brown clutch switch that you know will work in a plug and play manner and save yourself some headache.

Buy a Cruise Control contact lead (PN 61116911072) and a contact bushing (PN 61130056960). The contact lead runs to your DME and this step has likely already been done by the shop that did your swap, but get one anyone in case you want to do a fresh tap and not re-use the old contact lead from your current clutch switch.


Wiring details: That cruise control contact harness lead will require the following wiring work. I borrowed this write-up from this forum thread


What wires go where?
The black female connector has four wires. 3 of the wires are connected to a blue block. 1 wire is connected to a burgundy block.

Cut the blue block off the above Cruise Control Clutch Lead and run these as below (Pin 1 - 3)

Pin 1 - Tap onto PIN 2 on Brake Pedal Switch (EARTH)
Pin 2 - **Wire to x60002 Pin 20 DME in engine bay using the above bushing contact lead (SIGNAL)
Pin 3 - Tap onto PIN 1 on Brake Pedal Switch (12V)


Pin 4 - (Blue wire located on the solo burgundy block) - Install in Pin 8 in the EWS control module. This pin allows the Clutch Switch to communicate to the EWS that the clutch has been depressed. This part can also be coded out, but I believe it's recommended to retain the clutch to start functionality. This clip shows how that's done. The clip is at 11:09 of the video in case it does not start at that point when you follow the link.


Pin 2 - tapping pin 2 from the clutch switch to x60002 Pin 20 DME. Here is a youtube video of how this is done. Forward to 9:03 if the link doesn't automatically take you there:

Once the DME tap is complete, you can verify the work by plugging the car into INPA. No coding should be required, only verification the switch is working.




Status Grip Switch above is referring to the Cruise Control Cut-Out switch. When it reads ON, this means the circuit is open and the status correlates to the clutch pedal being depressed.

When it reads OFF, the DME is receiving the correct 12V input, correlating to the clutch pedal not being depressed, which will fix the stalling issues you're having.

If it reads ON always and regardless of clutch switch position, check your wiring. If the wiring is correct, the switch is wrong or defective.

Please note: the above information is under the assumption that you have already coded out the GPS (Gear Position Switch),

[Pklauser]

Just get the still-available Euro part, much cheaper than used brown switches: 61319122701 https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...h/61319122701/

and code out the clutch interlock. I did this and have functional cruise.

[terra]

Thanks. So with the key in position 2, should the status change? What about with the key in position 3 as I row through the gears? No matter what I try - it just says "on" now.

In position 2 with the gear lever engaged, the status should change with depressing the clutch or rowing the gears. With the engine running, obviously having the clutch pedal up and the car in gear would require the car to move - so it's harder to test in INPA, but should follow the same pattern.

It is possible that it's actually your gear recognition sensor that's ?intermittently failing.

[bagger]

The contact lead runs to your DME and this step has likely already been done by the shop that did your swap

First off, I've seen your name in a ton of threads like this - so appreciate your response for sure! But, my car wasn't swapped. It's a factory manual. Does all of what you said still apply in that case?

Please note: the above information is under the assumption that you have already coded out the GPS (Gear Position Switch),

I never coded it out, and I highly doubt the previous owner did (he basically did nothing to the car except break/fix). But how could I check?

[bagger]

Just get the still-available Euro part, much cheaper than used brown switches: 61319122701 https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...h/61319122701/

and code out the clutch interlock. I did this and have functional cruise.

Thanks! Did you have similar stalling issues prior? I have no idea if cruise control works - I never use it on any of my cars, hah. So I don't even care about cruise control or not - just trying to make it not stall like it was the other day.

[bagger]

In position 2 with the gear lever engaged, the status should change with depressing the clutch or rowing the gears. With the engine running, obviously having the clutch pedal up and the car in gear would require the car to move - so it's harder to test in INPA, but should follow the same pattern.

It is possible that it's actually your gear recognition sensor that's ?intermittently failing.

Makes sense - thanks.

[AWE46M3]

First off, I've seen your name in a ton of threads like this - so appreciate your response for sure! But, my car wasn't swapped. It's a factory manual. Does all of what you said still apply in that case?



I never coded it out, and I highly doubt the previous owner did (he basically did nothing to the car except break/fix). But how could I check?

Missed that detail - never heard of this issue with a factory 6MT car. If the switch is not toggling on/off in INPA based on the clutch being depressed, I would bet replacing the clutch switch would resolve the issue. I don't know too much about how the gear position sensor works for 6MT cars but I'm fairly certain it gets coded out with SMG < Manual swaps as part of that process. I'm not sure why factory manual cars would have a GPS sensor since there is nothing on the dash telling you what gear you're in (not something I know much about to be honest...so I'll defer to others recommendations on that piece).

You've reported odd behavior when you unplug/reinstall the clutch switch. I'll bet a new clutch switch (Brown or Green + coding) should resolve the issue you're having.

Please confirm what the fix was once you replace the components in question.

[bagger]

Thanks! Yeah, I'm just going to hang tight until I get a replacement from ECS that wasn't clearly an opened box at some point. If that doesn't work, then I will mess with these older NLA ones + coding.

[terra]

I don't know too much about how the gear position sensor works for 6MT cars but I'm fairly certain it gets coded out with SMG < Manual swaps as part of that process. I'm not sure why factory manual cars would have a GPS sensor since there is nothing on the dash telling you what gear you're in.

So the sensor on factory 6MT cars does not detect which gear the car is in - it just is a sensor used to tell the computer whether it is in a gear or not. The clutch switch is wired in series with it.

Overall circuit is Clutch Switch (+12V with pedal up, 0V with pedal depressed) -> gear position sensor (open in neutral, closed in gear) -> DME. If everything is functioning normally, the DME will receive 12v when the car is in gear and the clutch isn't depressed. And it will receive no voltage when the clutch is depressed or the gear lever is in neutral.

For SMG conversions, you can do things the above way, but tapping the transmission for the sensor is a pain, and it doesn't really offer any major functionality over having the clutch switch go straight to the DME and editing the tune slightly to account for the fact that it is possible for the clutch to be engaged but transmission in neutral. So the general recommendation is to just delete the sensor and do the coding.

Diagram from TIS (for post 2001 cars; earlier cars can follow the same diagnostic steps as below, but use a different style clutch switch and will have a different pinout at the switch end):




You can test the components of the circuit independently with a meter without getting under the car or taking any of the interior apart. See below


Testing the clutch switch:

Go to your DME box. Connect one probe of your multimeter to X6011 pin 3 (gray wire pictured below).


Connect the other probe to ground (any ground point will suffice). Put the meter in DC voltage mode. With the key in position two (engine off or on), you should see ~12v on the meter with the clutch up, 0v with the clutch depressed.


If you get constant 12v, the switch is bad. If you get no voltage, then either the switch is bad or you have a non-M switch (the non-M switch switches between open and ground instead of open and 12v).

Testing the gear position sensor.

Take key out of the car. Set the meter to continuity / resistance mode. Leave the probe in X6001 pin 3 where it was. Move the other probe to X60002 Pin 20 (pictured below). With the gear lever in gear, you should see near 0 ohms. With the lever in neutral, there should be no continuity..

If the continuity does not change with the gear lever position, then that means this switch is bad. Either replace it or bypass it and code it out.

If all of the above checks out, but INPA still doesn't appropriately register the switch, then there is either a DME fault or an intermittent failure.