S6-37 6mt swap info (broken off from junk yard thread)

[EthanolTurbo]

Gents,


Is there a bench mark how a transmission should shift ? absolutely not.

In general people do not like notchy gear shifting....

Someone few pages back mentioned that g420 "it will never be Honda" lol
I think Honda shifting is absolute garbage empty feeling, but that is just me.

I personally do like as notchy as possible so I can feel the gear mechanism
going thru the gears and way better control and feeling driven with anger.

Clack, clack, clack....

Regards
Anri

Yes, the benchmark is the S2000 transmission. I heard the 981 GT4 is similar.

[EthanolTurbo]

I kind of lost interest once I realized I own a S6-37 already (in my 128i). I don’t think it shifts any better, even compared to the completely stock 420g in my e39 M5… much less compared to the auto solutions kit in my e46.

No idea why but the 420g in the E39 M5 shifts so much better than the E46 M3 420g.

[Bry5on]

Yes, the benchmark is the S2000 transmission. I heard the 981 GT4 is similar.

My 981 GTS (same gearbox as GT4) was absolutely phenomenal. Clear gates, low notch, reasonable not-too-long-or-short throws. Same can’t necessarily be said for the 911 7-speed I had in my 991. That one had second gear synchro issues and just isn’t quite as clear with the gates.

I’m personally chasing something *closer* to that cayman. Sadly, the caymans don’t take hitch or roof racks, so here we are trying to make one car that does everything.

[Anri]

Yes, the benchmark is the S2000 transmission. I heard the 981 GT4 is similar.

Okay, describe what you like about it ?

Don't compare cable driven shifters vs direct rod. So if the VW Group
is similar to S2000 as I am getting from you so far you don't like notchy.

E39M5 uses different Shifter Arm than E46M3 so its expected to have
different shifting feel.

Regards
Anri

[heinzboehmer]

Notchy is fine with me, up to a certain point. What I hate about the 420G is how crunchy it feels. 1-2 shift requires way too much force and you have to crunch your way in. Feels like there's a few separate points where you encounter resistance in the throw.

+1 to the 981 comment. That gearbox feels amazing.

[Obioban]

No idea why but the 420g in the E39 M5 shifts so much better than the E46 M3 420g.

Longer throws.

[EthanolTurbo]

Okay, describe what you like about it ?

Don't compare cable driven shifters vs direct rod. So if the VW Group
is similar to S2000 as I am getting from you so far you don't like notchy.

E39M5 uses different Shifter Arm than E46M3 so its expected to have
different shifting feel.

Regards
Anri

It shifts perfectly. Super communicative, super slick, it's buttery smooth. Have you driven an S2000 with fresh fluid?

[Slideways]

BMW chose to market SMG2s and sell more cars; therefore, no revised manwell gearbox

[Anri]

It shifts perfectly. Super communicative, super slick, it's buttery smooth. Have you driven an S2000 with fresh fluid?

Hi,

Yes I have driven s2k ones long time ago.

I knew exactly what you like. If I recall you had
E34M5 ? If you install E36 M3 97' shifter and
upgrade the bushings with firmer durometer, E46M3
tranny bushings and it will feel exactly what you
are after.


A lot of engineering has gone when the Factory
designed the shifting characteristics.

Gear box side:

- Synchro design 1 - 3 piece
- Synchro material brass, steel
- Oil Viscosity and additives
- Shifting rod arc depth
- Shifting rod arc transition
- Spring pressure lb/kg


From the Chassis side:

- Shifter arm single or double ear
- Shifter bushing rubber durometer (specific)
- Shifter knob inside rubber padding

Regards,
Anri

[D-O]

Longer throws.

Okay. So how would one replicate this in the M3? The list of things I don't like about my E46 M3 is extremely short, but shift feel is at the top of that list.

D-O

[D-O]

Has anyone tried swapping in something really off the wall? Tremec maybe?

[Anri]

Notchy is fine with me, up to a certain point. What I hate about the 420G is how crunchy it feels. 1-2 shift requires way too much force and you have to crunch your way in. Feels like there's a few separate points where you encounter resistance in the throw.

+1 to the 981 comment. That gearbox feels amazing.

heinzboehmer,

The 3 piece synchronizer works very well when its New.
The moment they wear out little bit...is what everybody
is experiencing on G420 2nd gear and when cold its getting
worst till the oil gets thinner. 2nd gear is the most abused one
from all.

More often Engineers will overthink in order to make concept
to work better than the previous gen. Look at the S54 Vanos
and look at S65 Vanos...instead the S65 to be way more complicated
they when back worth way more simple unit over all in design
and package. I'd say almost like M50...(but not getting into details
on this one)

Never compare Cable sifter vs Rod direct shifter.

Regards,
Anri

[heinzboehmer]

The 3 piece synchronizer works very well when its New.
The moment they wear out little bit...is what everybody
is experiencing on G420 2nd gear and when cold its getting
worst till the oil gets thinner. 2nd gear is the most abused one
from all.

Yeah, that's why I want to swap the 420G out!

Never compare Cable sifter vs Rod direct shifter.

Agreed that it's pretty useless to compare them when talking about the mechanics of the system. However, I think it's totally fair to compare them when it comes to feel. At the end of the day, what I'm saying is that I really liked how the shifts in the 981 felt in my hand and I do not like how the shifts in my M3 feel.

Won't be able to completely replicate the feeling with a rod shifter unless I reengineer things so that I can use a cable shifter (which sounds like a complete waste of time). I would, however, like to get closer to that shift feel and the ZF boxes seem like the way to go (at least based on other BMWs I've driven with ZF boxes in them).

Edit: The cable shifter conversion actually sounds fun to design. I kinda want to do it now...

[tlow98]

Longer throws.

can the m5 lever be used in the m3 plug and play?

[Obioban]

can the m5 lever be used in the m3 plug and play?

Don’t know at all.

I’m sure auto solutions would be happy to make a long shift kit.