Did a PCA HPDE event and my arm got tired from point bys - need help going faster

[Maxhouse97]

As the title states, I had a great track day with PCA but got tired of all the point bys. Mostly GT3/4s, I could keep up with 997 Carrera Ss. While the title is a bit tongue in cheek, I would like to make my car faster on the track.

As we all know making the driver better is the first priority, but let’s put that aside for now (there is a plan there). What are the top three mods you would do to make an M3 better on the track? Thinking about a 3-4k budget. My car today has a brake upgrade, Hothckis front sway, Turner camber plates, and 200 TW tires. Otherwise it’s stock.

Things I was thinking: coil overs (was mid Ohio so lots of guys like TC Kline), exhaust/tune, 100 TW tires, take 50-75 pounds out with seats/antigravity battery, etc.). The car is driven to and from, so need to remain dual duty (no interior gutting).

Let me know what you think.

[Slideways]

More tuition. Also, join another run group or club with slower cars as it is not going to be easy to keep up with 100k+ GT3/4s.

[Estoril]

You aren't going to mod your car to run with GT3s and GT4s (equally talented drivers). I recommend reminding yourself why you are there and getting the best Instructors. I also recommend you stop seeing it as a "hardware war" and start seeing it as a driver development event. With the right Instructor and experience you'll be able to see where you are a better driver and where cars pass you simply based on horsepower-to-weight ratio.

A week ago I was instructing with a good guy driving a 318i 4-cylinder. He had autocross experience but never on a track. 95% of all cars on track were faster than his car. On Day 2 I had him hold off on point-byes where I knew he was faster in successive combination turns and asked him to focus on a perfect line, not over-braking, using all of his grip and great exits. He ended up pulling away from faster cars until he was on the longer straights, and THEN he pointed them by. I'd say that more than HALF of the higher HP cars had sloppier lines - and I commented how they were trying to make up for that with HP. He was amazed (and I think encouraged) how much of a difference concentrating on perfecting his technique and being consistent made to his speed and how he saw other cars.

Know what makes you fast. Its not hardware.

Footnote: The quality of instruction makes a very real difference. Sub-footnote: All HPDE sponsors and their instructor bases are not equal.

[MarcoPolo]

you 100000000% do not want 100TW tires. you need the noisy tires to tell you how to control yourself. problem with 100TW is....you get no warning and by then it's too late and you're hitting a wall.
i'd say mods give you motivation to improve but they do more to mask issues. the goal is to peak your driving abilities with the way the car is setup and then add stuff to increase that. mods won't make you better, just faster. but faster doesn't do anything until you're better.

anti-gravity battery is cool but you're not shaving seconds off just cuz of that.

i would look at improving your suspension to improve your handling. this will make both your track experience fun as well as keeping your car as a daily driver.

my car is fairly modded and i'm doing 1:14's at Watkins. a friend is on a bone-stock e46 except for bilstein clubsports and he's doing 1:12's. 2 seconds faster than me, stock seats, stock catted headers, stock exhaust, stock tune...do i need to go on...

[R717]

Three mods?
1. Data system
2. Data/video system
3. Camber plates/suspension

I concur with the advice above, driving skill is by far what will get you the most time/speed. If you're serious about this hobby, a data system is pretty much a must. When I first started tracking, a friend talked me into buying a vbox hd2 video/data system. Its been revolutionary from allowing me to self coach and also evaluate if I'm actually implementing intended changes. As a by-product of getting it early in my driving career, it's pretty cool to go back and look at some of my early videos and see how far I've come.

I've heard good things about the garmin catalyst and apex pro, but I haven't used them.

Camber plates are a good idea, they'll soon pay for themselves by keeping your tires from cording on the outside edge. You have to be mindful they fit what suspension you plan to put under the car.

[eacmen]

One of the instructors at the last team event had a Garmin Catalyst and showed me what it can do and how it helped him. First thing I did when I got back was buy one. Going to try it out at VIR in November, but I suspect dollar for dollar will probably be the best bang for buck as far as lap time.

[M9Seth]

you 100000000% do not want 100TW tires. you need the noisy tires to tell you how to control yourself. problem with 100TW is....you get no warning and by then it's too late and you're hitting a wall.
i'd say mods give you motivation to improve but they do more to mask issues. the goal is to peak your driving abilities with the way the car is setup and then add stuff to increase that. mods won't make you better, just faster. but faster doesn't do anything until you're better.

anti-gravity battery is cool but you're not shaving seconds off just cuz of that.

i would look at improving your suspension to improve your handling. this will make both your track experience fun as well as keeping your car as a daily driver.

my car is fairly modded and i'm doing 1:14's at Watkins. a friend is on a bone-stock e46 except for bilstein clubsports and he's doing 1:12's. 2 seconds faster than me, stock seats, stock catted headers, stock exhaust, stock tune...do i need to go on...

WOW a 1:14 & 1:12, Impressive! That's faster than an Indycar! (Scout Dixen's pole was a 1:22 and change on the long course) I think you mean 2:14 & 2:12

[Gt4]

I would get:

-brake pads with race compound like Performance Friction 08. No dual purpose pads, it’s noisy on steeet and sucks at track. Also make sure you have good brake fluid like Motul 600 or 660. Brass bushing guide pins are also nice upgrade to help wear pads straight, not like a wedge.

-Ohlins R&T coilovers

-lightweight wheels like Apex Arc8 in larger sizes

-headers

[MarcoPolo]

WOW a 1:14 & 1:12, Impressive! That's faster than an Indycar! (Scout Dixen's pole was a 1:22 and change on the long course) I think you mean 2:14 & 2:12

Lol...touche...yes 2:12 /2:14.. actually last time I was limping 2:16's all day...bad engine....getting it back this week and doing summit/wgi back to back this coming weekend.

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[mrgizmo04]

I'd go with Hoosiers, aero kit and a turbo kit, all can be found used.

I kid.

You would most benefit from what you said to set aside, which is to spend the extra $ every HPDE you go to to get private instruction. That is best bang for the buck. That said, for you to be more comfortable and to be able to focus on driving, a proper seat/restraint would help a lot. Also, to get the most out of the 200tw tires, you'd probably want to get coilovers that can handle the additional forces and actually keep those tires on the ground.

Our cars can still put up a decent fight, just remember that they can get smoked by minivans and grocery getters these days, so don't get too discouraged in packs of pcars with decent drivers.

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[EthanolTurbo]

Seats and seat time are probably the best track mods.

[eacmen]

Rollbar, seats, and harnesses, and HANS!

[S54330Ci]

Well first of all an attempt to even keep up with GT3 / GT4 cars is futile given they are 400-500hp (or more) massive aero and huge mechanical grip. If this is the group you are running with then point-bys will be inevitable. The money you would need to invest in your M3 to make it close to competitive would be ridiculous and even then you would still be pointing these cars by.

I'd look into dropping into a slower group of comparable HP cars if that is possible.

Having said that, I dropped a second in time from just a proper seat alone. A race seat will help you feel the car under you (through your rear), keep you from sliding in a typical leather covered seat, eliminate the "death grip" on the steering wheel and the need to brace yourself against the door in corners. It really helps you focus on the car and what it is doing. What others have said about instruction (whether it is human or electronic) has definite payback with lower lap times.

[Obioban]

Modern GT3/4s aren't a realistic target, if the drivers are competent.

15 years ago I primarily did PCA events, because CCA was annoyingly slow and I was always stuck in traffic.

These days, I do far more CCA events. Modern Porsches have gotten FAST, especially the GT cars. If you drive with a club that's mostly new GT cars, in a run group with mildly competent drivers, it is a lot of pointing by.

That said, the only single "mod" that'll make your car significantly faster is tires. And tires have tradeoffs.

More seat time is the best way to get more faster.

[tnord]

Doing a lead-follow with a good driver you trust in a similar car (I wouldn't want to learn a FWD or 911 line) will be the cheapest/fastest way to "gather data" and go faster.

After that stick with maintenance, chassis, and setup (corner weight your coilovers, get adjustable swaybar endlinks, pay attention to your alignment, dial in your tire pressures).