No crank, no start issue - need help!

[Rockies67]

My car is a 2000 323ci, which recently started to intermittently exhibit a no crank no start behaviour. This happened a few times but always started after turning the key a few times, But, finally one time it would not start at all. In desperation I tried to bump start the car but that was unsuccessful. So I resigned myself to have the car towed home for further investigation. As a last gasp attempt I turned the key in the ignition one last time and the car fired right up So I drove it home and have been scouring the Internet watching every video
I can find on no crank no start, and reading every posting I can find. So far no of these have helped me find the source of my issue. I should also note that this has been going on now for several weeks and it seems to me that the starting is becoming less frequent.

So far I have;
1. Checked the battery voltage (always 12.6 V or greater, 3 year old battery with clean posts)
2. Checked for battery drainage associated with a poor ground strap- looks good
3. Probed the starter posts, 12V is always present on the center post, when tested during a no start condition there was 0 voltage on bottom right post
4. Probed all the lines out of the ignition switch and observed voltage (12V) on them when the key was turned
5. Removed the EWS module and inspected it for visible signs of failure and cleaned the contacts and connector with electronic cleaning fluid.
6. I attempted to run the test with a fuse across the two large slots (as seen on many Youtube videos) but, noticed that pin 2 is not populated on my connector.
7. Instead jumped between the black wire and the black wire with a blue stripe. When the key was turned to start the starter engaged and turned the car over but the car did not start.
8. Tried the two original factory keys (#4 & 5) with no difference in behavoir. (Note: during this whole process I have observed both keys (#4 & 5) start the car)
9. Connected the INPA software and observed the following (see screenshots below)
10. Have seen the clutch switch toggle between yes and no when the clutch is engaged
11. Have wiggled the EWS connections and position around and have not seen the INPA information change.
12. Recorded the voltage at the EWS pin 1 = 0 V, and pin 3 = 12.4 V when the ignition is turned to start
13. Observed that the car will beep if when the key is left in the ignition and the door is opened
14. Tested the resistance of the ignition ring = 2.7 ohms
15. Observed a nice 126 KHz waveform on an oscilloscope at the iginition ring
16. Purchased PA Soft and captured the live data between the keys and the EWS

So here is where I am at.

I beleive that the battery and grounding issues have been eliminated.

Testing of the EWS and ignition modules show that the starter is functioning and that the ignition moduleand antenna are good.

Both the PA Soft and the INPA data seem to indicate that there is a key issue but, I find it hard to beleive that two keys could fail at the same time. Alternatively the EWS could be corrupted somehow but I am not sure how to confirm that.

What have I missed? What should I do next? I am stalled and need your help.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[elrichmeister]

From your scans it looks like the DME has issues with the EWS module. I'm leaning towards a problem with the EWS module.
You may want to look at the process of Syncing the DME and EWS module. Honestly never done it my self so not sure on the exact process.
Since you have 323ci its an earlier model i think there are different methods of doing this between the EWS and EWS 3.3 which is found on newer models.
couple of links

https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/how-to-synch-dme-ews-using-inpa.1317773/

https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/no-start-guide.1011677/

[Rockies67]

Thanks for the suggestion. I am also leaning towards an EWS issue. Just no sure if the problem is with the EWS exchanging information with the key (are they out of sync?) or if as you suggested a DME to EWS issue. I believe that there is a DME/EWS sync function in INPA (I have also never tried it before).

I watched an excellent video today by DTech Engineering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GtU9PBaZB0 where he uses the AK90 to resync his existing keys. I have ordered an AK90 and hope to give it a try.

[sapote]

It says the starter is disabled bc no signal from pressed clutch.

[Rockies67]

Pressing the clutch in/out results in that box toggling from yes to no. But it should be an easy to confirm that electically that line changes at the EWS. Does anyone know what pin that is on the EWS?

[sapote]

Pressing the clutch in/out results in that box toggling from yes to no.

Then you should post the pic when clutch is pushed down instead of pedal is up while ignition turned to START. It's misleading and wasting other people time.

I think the clutch sw wire connected to EWS pin8

[Rockies67]

AK90 arrived today. There are some things that I do not understand in the data I see when the keys are read. Firstly, the key number is incremented by 1 over what is read by the PA Soft and INPA. Secondly, key # 5 (or 6 in the AK90) is showing no data for the VIN nor mileage--this is the main key that I have been using prior to the no crank no start symptoms starting.

I also discovered that I have a valet key and a wallet key so I checked these out in the AK90 also. Those two keys and key #4 (or 5 in the AK90) all show the VIN and a mileage value (although it is impossible to understand how #4 has a mileage of 327683 as I have never used this key in the 10 years that I have owned the car).

Is is possible that key # 5, which was my daily driving key has somehow become corrupt/failed and has caused the EWS and DME to go out of sync? Which as a result has messed everything up for the other keys?

I am a little afraid to try the valet and wallet keys in the car at this point as I am afraid that I may mess them up somehow.

Let me know if anyone has seen anything like this in the past and if you have any thoughts on next steps, or if this is a total wild goose chase.

[sapote]

Firstly, the key number is incremented by 1 over what is read by the PA Soft and INPA. Secondly, key # 5 (or 6 in the AK90) is showing no data for the VIN nor mileage--this is the main key that I have been using prior to the no crank no start symptoms starting.

I also discovered that I have a valet key and a wallet key so I checked these out in the AK90 also. Those two keys and key #4 (or 5 in the AK90) all show the VIN and a mileage value (although it is impossible to understand how #4 has a mileage of 327683 as I have never used this key in the 10 years that I have owned the car).

Is is possible that key # 5, which was my daily driving key has somehow become corrupt/failed and has caused the EWS and DME to go out of sync? Which as a result has messed everything up for the other keys?

I am a little afraid to try the valet and wallet keys in the car at this point as I am afraid that I may mess them up somehow.

Let me know if anyone has seen anything like this in the past and if you have any thoughts on next steps, or if this is a total wild goose chase.

AK90 counting keys starts from 1, while other tools counts from 0 as most digital counters start from 0 -- no reason to waste a digit.

"although it is impossible to understand how #4 has a mileage of 327683 as I have never used this key in the 10 years that I have owned the car"
What's the mileage on the odometer compared to 327683km? Did you insert this key into the ignition recently?

"Is is possible that key # 5, which was my daily driving key has somehow become corrupt/failed and has caused the EWS and DME to go out of sync?"
I don't think the key is the root cause, as each key is indipendence from other keys. I think the EWS lost its mind and wiped out the VIN and KM on that key.

I would read the EWS data and save it, then try to write the same data to the #5 key to sync the random number and other programmable data into the key.


Did you install the software from the purchased CD, or from download on website? I think I used the download as the CD has a very old version.

[Rockies67]

"although it is impossible to understand how #4 has a mileage of 327683 as I have never used this key in the 10 years that I have owned the car"
What's the mileage on the odometer compared to 327683km? Did you insert this key into the ignition recently?

Actual mileage = 349648 km
That key has been sitting in a cupboard for years--actually did not know it was for my e46, thought it was for either the 535 or the X5 until we put the key into the AK90. Have not put the key into the ignition.

"Is is possible that key # 5, which was my daily driving key has somehow become corrupt/failed and has caused the EWS and DME to go out of sync?"
I don't think the key is the root cause, as each key is indipendence from other keys. I think the EWS lost its mind and wiped out the VIN and KM on that key.

Connected the car to the INPA s/w again today to check some data and while cycling through with key # 5 in the ignition, noticed that all of the EWS conditions for the key had changed and that the s/w showed that the car would start. Sure enough, turning the key to start resulted in the car running. After running for a short while, turned the car off and the INPA s/w reverted to showing a problem with the password and the rolling code (no more starting). This is driving me nuts! Checked the key again in the AK90 and it still is not showing a VIN nor the mileage. I am having a hard time understanding how the key could be corrupted and at the same time it occassionally will start the car. And also, shouldn't key (# 4) that is registering correctly on the AK90 always start the car since it reads correctly and the car treats each key uniquely?.

I would read the EWS data and save it, then try to write the same data to the #5 key to sync the random number and other programmable data into the key.

Currently experiencing some problems with getting the AK90 to read the chip. Hopefully will get that solved soon.

Did you install the software from the purchased CD, or from download on website? I think I used the download as the CD has a very old version.

Used the enclosed disk, it has V3..19

[Rockies67]

Here is the screenshot of the INPA data when key # 5 decided to work today.

[Rockies67]

Okay, now it is offically gone into the realm of strange. Today we tried a few things:

1. had the EWS out to test out the AK90 (note: my brand new AK90 seems to have a problem as it will not read the EWS).
2. double checked the fuses 14 + 67
3. connected and disconnected the ring antenna few times to see the impact on key data transfer
4. front probed the EWS connector with the EWS unplugged to record voltage on pins 10, 11, 13, 8 (12V with clutch depressed and 9.1V with released clutch) and ground on pin 9

Decided to check out the EWS Actual Key Data with key # 5 (the one we have been asuming is corrupt) and now the Key Invalid because of, changing code, identification, and password all were "no". Car starts. OKay we have seen this before and expect that it will only last for a short while.

Change to key # 4, again everything is a green light and the car starts.

Change back to key # 5 and everthing is fine again.

Decide to wiggle the connections to the EWS and see if we can make it glitch out. On occassion the "identification" status would change from no to yes briefly but always revert to no.

It has now been 3-4 hrs since the keys started working and everytime starting the car.

Not sure why the car is suddenly starting. We did remember that one of our earlier INPA error codes was "power on reset"

and wonder if an intermittent power connection might be the explanation for why the keys were not being read correctly. We did spray the connector with electronics contact cleaner at the very beginning of all this but, wonder if the mechanical action of front probing the connector may have done the trick. This is only a theory and I am open to your thoughts. Also, I am hopeful that the car will continue to start but do not have alot of confidence at this point.

[sapote]

1. had the EWS out to test out the AK90 (note: my brand new AK90 seems to have a problem as it will not read the EWS).

New AK90 has problem or user problem? I know many people had problem of using it the first time.
What sort of problem you have with using AK90? Did you get "Pin No Touch" error msg? Then read this: https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...stify.1304138/

[Rockies67]

Thanks for sending the AK90 link. My problem is that when the socket is placed onto the chip it does not read the chip.

I have not had a "Pin no touch" error message.

On a more positive note, my car continues to start today, everytime. I mounted the EWS back inside the car and have gone a short trip to test everything out and the car continued to restart upon my return. I plan to make several more short drives to see how it performs before risking driving somewhere and actually turning the car off as I have no desire to get stranded. I will keep everyone informed of my progress.....hopefully all good.

Stilll interested in getting people's thoughts on the source of my initial no crank no start issue. I feel a little uneasy having "fixed" a car where no parts were changed.

[sapote]

Did you use AK90 to read the #5 key and see if the VIN and KM fields are correct or blank shown on INPA?

[Rockies67]

Well that was a short ride!

Car crapped out again this afternoon, all the same symptoms and error codes. This is getting discouraging..

This eveing the car started again with key # 5, then reverted to its key password and code errors.

Read key # 5 in the AK90 and it still is not showing the VIN or KM. This is also what INPA shows.