Apex ML-10rt

[AbbeyRoad]

One aspect of Apexs that I like as well is there are easily replaceable.

They're priced as such and stocked as such. One of my biggest frustrations with BBS Japan is inventory. Their old school multi-piece wheels out of Germany often take even longer to deliver.

Competition is good and the Chinese are killing it in the car wheel game.

[dukeofchen]

Personally think they look pretty good, even more so when you consider a full set can be had for the price of a single E88, or a pair of 21A's.

For all the talk of forges and manufacturing processes, Apex's track record (see what I did there?) of quality speaks for itself. If you're going to compare to BBS / Volks at least be honest that the value is in the bling factor.

[AbbeyRoad]

If you're going to compare to BBS / Volks at least be honest that the value is in the bling factor.

Not completely, but absolutely there is value in brand. That's why the Arnault clan, of the LVMH company, is one of the wealthiest in the world.

[dHam_Slow.46M]

Here's a nice little perspective of the current wheel design game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4tF02w9OEU

But going back to the topic of the ML-10s, kinda wish they were a little lighter given that they're forged. That said, it is a set that I'm considering now that Apex decided to kill of the FL-5

[dukeofchen]

Not completely, but absolutely there is value in brand. That's why the Arnault clan, of the LVMH company, is one of the wealthiest in the world.

Here's a nice little perspective of the current wheel design game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4tF02w9OEU

But going back to the topic of the ML-10s, kinda wish they were a little lighter given that they're forged. That said, it is a set that I'm considering now that Apex decided to kill of the FL-5

Great vid, and makes a fair point that aside from logo there's some value in the original design specs for motorsport applications, which reps might not take into account.

Maybe I'm just more of a man of the people but I think in that regard, Apex's origin is a pretty cool story – they might not have designed wheels for F1 or GT3, but aesthetics aside they succeeded because of the product's success in grassroots motorsports at a great price point.

[fattycharged]

APEX are great for a cheap set of wheels you don't mind beating the hell of out. Those 21A's are on my short list, I really want to see a set in person before I order some

[///Marecki]

Let me qualify by saying this post really has nothing to do with rims in particular. However I'm amused to observe the endless perpetuation of the "China = poor quality" sterotype.

Generally speaking on manufacturing, the last time this was true was probably in the 00's. The fact is China is a more technologically advanced county than the United States at this point. I urge anyone to go and see for themselves, trust me you would be left dumbfounded. Their economic model supports efficiency and scale. The only American producers you will find these days that can claim superior quality are niche-y craftsman operations and obviously those are a whole different category. Scaling a large manufacturing operation is another beast entirely.

It's one thing if you don't want to support it with your dollar because it comes from an adversarial country, but if you think it's inherently worse because it is Chinese you are absolutely kidding yourself. American production shirks all the same. It is a race to the bottom in materials and everything else.

[Obioban]

Apex on the other hand, they are not on the same playing field as Rays, but their products are good (design originality notwithstanding) and they have a good replacement policy..

Apex's are also the only wheel I've ever needed to replace 🤣

Cracked spokes were enough for me to decide Apex wheels are not for me.

[fattycharged]

Let me qualify by saying this post really has nothing to do with rims in particular. However I'm amused to observe the endless perpetuation of the "China = poor quality" sterotype.

Generally speaking on manufacturing, the last time this was true was probably in the 00's. The fact is China is a more technologically advanced county than the United States at this point. I urge anyone to go and see for themselves, trust me you would be left dumbfounded. Their economic model supports efficiency and scale. The only American producers you will find these days that can claim superior quality are niche-y craftsman operations and obviously those are a whole different category. Scaling a large manufacturing operation is another beast entirely.

It's one thing if you don't want to support it with your dollar because it comes from an adversarial country, but if you think it's inherently worse because it is Chinese you are absolutely kidding yourself. American production shirks all the same. It is a race to the bottom in materials and everything else.

great story.


So I ordered a set of 21A's last night and paid to NOT have them sit on a barge for weeks. Will update with how long my $600 shipping fees take later

[Obioban]

Let me qualify by saying this post really has nothing to do with rims in particular. However I'm amused to observe the endless perpetuation of the "China = poor quality" sterotype.

Generally speaking on manufacturing, the last time this was true was probably in the 00's. The fact is China is a more technologically advanced county than the United States at this point. I urge anyone to go and see for themselves, trust me you would be left dumbfounded. Their economic model supports efficiency and scale. The only American producers you will find these days that can claim superior quality are niche-y craftsman operations and obviously those are a whole different category. Scaling a large manufacturing operation is another beast entirely.

It's one thing if you don't want to support it with your dollar because it comes from an adversarial country, but if you think it's inherently worse because it is Chinese you are absolutely kidding yourself. American production shirks all the same. It is a race to the bottom in materials and everything else.

High quality wheels aren't made in the USA or China-- they're made in Japan, which has ALL of the top end wheel forges on the planet.

That said, I work at US industrial company, that outsources component manufacturing all over the planet. EASILY the country that gives us the least consistent quality parts is China. Enough so that engineering (where I work) always has a huge groan when we find out that where sourcing ended up for any given component.

China can do high end manufacturing. They also consistently start making changes to cheapen it the moment they think you're not looking. There's a reason Apple has a standing order for 50 quality engineers to China per day.

[nextlvel]

great story.


So I ordered a set of 21A's last night and paid to NOT have them sit on a barge for weeks. Will update with how long my $600 shipping fees take later

fattycharged Where did you order from? System?

[///Marecki]

High quality wheels aren't made in the USA or China-- they're made in Japan, which has ALL of the top end wheel forges on the planet.

That said, I work at US industrial company, that outsources component manufacturing all over the planet. EASILY the country that gives us the least consistent quality parts is China. Enough so that engineering (where I work) always has a huge groan when we find out that where sourcing ended up for any given component.

China can do high end manufacturing. They also consistently start making changes to cheapen it the moment they think you're not looking. There's a reason Apple has a standing order for 50 quality engineers to China per day.

You are always going to have that issue whenever you enter into a principle-agent model. It would be irrational on the agents part not to try and maximize their margin. It doesn't matter what country they produce in.

[discoelk]

You are always going to have that issue whenever you enter into a principle-agent model. It would be irrational on the agents part not to try and maximize their margin. It doesn't matter what country they produce in.

Just my antecdotal experience but It's exceptionally true for China. Far less so with other countries and regions.

[oceansize]

I'm good with increased efficiency or better design which leads to a supplier increasing their profit margin. I think what many suppliers do, particularly in China, is the exact opposite. Their approach is "lets see how bad we can f$$k this up and have people still buy it".

[Obioban]

Yep. Chinese companies seem to be in a league of one for downgrading quality once the contract is signed.