288/280 vs 280/272 cams.

[BMWahba]

That is strange. I wonder if it'd be different if they were schrick variant.

[Obioban]

Are these not the valves?

According to that video, he put e39 M5 valves in because BMW doesn't sell the e46 M3 ones separately from the cams. Sooooooo... idk.

[terra]

We will see (I asked him in the comments), but I be the actual issue was he didn't move the oil valve over from the stock cams when he installed the cat cams (cat cams, unlike schricks, don't come with it). 800 miles to failure implies a lack of lubrication, to me.

Those valves are more for ensuring the vanos gets enough sufficient lubrication. The cams bearings are lubricated from the journals, and the lobes are basically lubricated by what's flinging around.

I'm not convinced it was used followers that caused this, but those valves shouldn't be the issue.

[Zekarus]

csl has 288/280 cams and uses the same stock followers as every S54 engine. i'm also wondering why schrick recommends their dlc coated followers for their 288/280 cams. i have got some csl cams that i will install as soon i can get an airbox.

[terra]

csl has 288/280 cams and uses the same stock followers as every S54 engine. i'm also wondering why schrick recommends their dlc coated followers for their 288/280 cams.

CSL cams are 268/264

[Zekarus]

there are a lot of different numbers out there. the torque spec pdf file here says 288/280 and these guys here don't know it too? http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8872

i also found in a german forum that they are 288/280 but i will take tomorrow some pictures and maybe someone can compare them to schricks 288/280.

[terra]

there are a lot of different numbers out there. the torque spec pdf file here says 288/280 and these guys here don't know it too? http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8872

Every number in that thread is wrong. Standard M3 is 260/260, CSL is 268/264. Refer to the attached document

[Zekarus]

thanks i guess i have some csl camshafts for sale soon 🙃

[racinghart]

Do the CSL camshafts come with the valves?

I’m curious how many of you that have Cat cams installed have the valves installed? Are they an absolutely necessary? Most 05-06 M3’s don’t have the valves on the stock cams so why would they need to be installed with aftermarket cams if they weren’t originally installed?

[terra]

Do the CSL camshafts come with the valves?

I’m curious how many of you that have Cat cams installed have the valves installed? Are they an absolutely necessary? Most 05-06 M3’s don’t have the valves on the stock cams so why would they need to be installed with aftermarket cams if they weren’t originally installed?

The job of the valves are to keep vanos lubrication pressure up.

If your cams are machined for the valves, but have no valves installed, then oil will flow freely from the vanos to the cam interior and result in pressure loss
If your cams have the valves, oil will not flow through the cam interior until pressure reaches 4.5 bar (65 psi)
If your cams are not machined for the valves at all, then oil won't flow through the cam at all, and pressure will be maintained, even above 65 psi.

Presumably on later builds, BMW decided that the car is above 65 psi rarely enough that it doesn't actually matter and they may as well just block any oil from flowing through the cam.

That said, my 05's factory cams had the valve.

[digger]

its not clear if it just spat a shim causing the wear or it spat the shim because it wore out. Would need to inspect the other lobes closely to if signs of abnormal wear . Nevertheless its more risky to not replace the followers and you probably have no chance for warranty claim from Schrick or catcams

[Ruley]

csl has 288/280 cams and uses the same stock followers as every S54 engine. i'm also wondering why schrick recommends their dlc coated followers for their 288/280 cams.

Sale tactic into thinking you need them or coating reduces friction prolonging wear/less parasitic drag or less chance of their product failing or all thee above.

My thoughts

[jbfrancis3]

We will see (I asked him in the comments), but I be the actual issue was he didn't move the oil valve over from the stock cams when he installed the cat cams (cat cams, unlike schricks, don't come with it). 800 miles to failure implies a lack of lubrication, to me.

Agree. DLC coated rockers do not make up the difference between 800 miles and tens of thousands of miles, or more.

[racinghart]

The job of the valves are to keep vanos lubrication pressure up.

If your cams are machined for the valves, but have no valves installed, then oil will flow freely from the vanos to the cam interior and result in pressure loss
If your cams have the valves, oil will not flow through the cam interior until pressure reaches 4.5 bar (65 psi)
If your cams are not machined for the valves at all, then oil won't flow through the cam at all, and pressure will be maintained, even above 65 psi.

Presumably on later builds, BMW decided that the car is above 65 psi rarely enough that it doesn't actually matter and they may as well just block any oil from flowing through the cam.

That said, my 05's factory cams had the valve.

Thanks Terra for the explanation.

[Cubieman]

So whats the general verdict of Cat Cams vs Schicks?