Going from K&N Intake to Karb CSL Box with Alpha N Tune back to K&N

[jpy1980]

Quick review for those with a cone intake system thinking about moving to a CSL box:

The sound difference is night and day. Like super loud, especially since I have a vert. Very guttural. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the loudest, the K&N intake is about a 2-3 while the CSL is a 10. The CSL box grumbles/growls down low and it howls up high. Can't even hear my Eisenmann muffler haha There is an intake rumble everywhere in the rev range.

I thought I'd like a louder intake, but I may be in the minority saying I like a better exhaust note than an intake note. I may want to get rid of the CSL box after I get my SMOG check. That's really the only reason I took it off and now I'm not sure if I want to put it back on.

Another thing that is night and day is the tune. Yes I heard that Alpha N tunes were fine, but after putting back the stock tune (actually I think I have a Dinan Stage 1 tune on the car, bought it this way) the ride is SO refined. Especially at low RPMS. Everything is less frantic and smooth.

I also decided to reinstall the OEM intake box back on by myself (I paid to have the CSL box installed when I got it) and while it was mechanically easy to do, those damn oetiker intake clamps were a BITCH to put back on. I literally spent like 2-3 hours putting the 3 rear ones back on. After I finished the job, I read a thread where they said to put it on the clamps while the intake was still off and click it to the first holder, but I read that too late haha. I don't know if I want to do that again.

Anyways, I think I'm rambling now, but I may sell my Karb box and Eisenmann muffler and go with a Rogue engineering EL mid pipe and El Diablo exhaust. I'm thinking that may be a better bet in terms of driving enjoyment for me. I'm curious to see what you guys think? Any exhaust setups recommended? I can't go with catless headers due to SMOG in CA, but I can do a mid pipe and muffler.

I know that this is a totally different car and engine/sound (I don't want to change cars), but this video exemplifies the driving sound/vibe I would like. Maybe not as loud as this example but something sonorous like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFiBfbmBw-M&t=395s

[M3LSB.Gab]

I might sell my Diablo rogue section 3 and looking to get a CSL intake soon ^^

[oceansize]

Rogue engineering EL mid pipe and El Diablo exhaust.

This is precisely what I have and I think it sounds fantastic, however, its been noted you will drop a some small amount of HP (be interesting to see dyno with RE rasp and muffler). Sound wise it is tough to beat assuming you don't want rasp.

You will have drone from 2k to 3k. I'm in a convertible and don't care.

[elrichmeister]

Quick review for those with a cone intake system thinking about moving to a CSL box:

The sound difference is night and day. Like super loud, especially since I have a vert. Very guttural. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the loudest, the K&N intake is about a 2-3 while the CSL is a 10. The CSL box grumbles/growls down low and it howls up high. Can't even hear my Eisenmann muffler haha There is an intake rumble everywhere in the rev range.

I thought I'd like a louder intake, but I may be in the minority saying I like a better exhaust note than an intake note. I may want to get rid of the CSL box after I get my SMOG check. That's really the only reason I took it off and now I'm not sure if I want to put it back on.

Another thing that is night and day is the tune. Yes I heard that Alpha N tunes were fine, but after putting back the stock tune (actually I think I have a Dinan Stage 1 tune on the car, bought it this way) the ride is SO refined. Especially at low RPMS. Everything is less frantic and smooth.

I also decided to reinstall the OEM intake box back on by myself (I paid to have the CSL box installed when I got it) and while it was mechanically easy to do, those damn oetiker intake clamps were a BITCH to put back on. I literally spent like 2-3 hours putting the 3 rear ones back on. After I finished the job, I read a thread where they said to put it on the clamps while the intake was still off and click it to the first holder, but I read that too late haha. I don't know if I want to do that again.

Anyways, I think I'm rambling now, but I may sell my Karb box and Eisenmann muffler and go with a Rogue engineering EL mid pipe and El Diablo exhaust. I'm thinking that may be a better bet in terms of driving enjoyment for me. I'm curious to see what you guys think? Any exhaust setups recommended? I can't go with catless headers due to SMOG in CA, but I can do a mid pipe and muffler.

I know that this is a totally different car and engine/sound (I don't want to change cars), but this video exemplifies the driving sound/vibe I would like. Maybe not as loud as this example but something sonorous like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFiBfbmBw-M&t=395s

Isn't there another Tune with IAT sensor or MAP or something? would that make low end drivability better with CSL intake?
I havent driven in a car with CSL intake yet, but as everyone says it sounds glorious, but smog in CA is really holding me back. I may go with OEM Karb box. I do have the eventuri intake and it has enhanced the cars sound.

[bavarian3]

Thanks for the insights. This helps folks like me considering going the opposite route.

If I wanted to stay smog friendly I would probably go the route of a sunbeam resonated section 1 then pick your noise level muffler.

How was the driveability with the Alpha N tune?

[jpy1980]

Isn't there another Tune with IAT sensor or MAP or something? would that make low end drivability better with CSL intake?
I havent driven in a car with CSL intake yet, but as everyone says it sounds glorious, but smog in CA is really holding me back. I may go with OEM Karb box. I do have the eventuri intake and it has enhanced the cars sound.

Is there is a MAP conversion but then that’s more stuff to deal with when taking the box off for CARB. Also I have a 2003 (pre LCI) so I’ll need to upgrade the computer to do it. Didn’t want to deal with the headache. Heard drivability is better though but still had to deal with CARB.

the OEM Karb box is an option but once again, it’ll fail visually at the smog center. Unless you vinyl wrap it matte black?! Haha

[dukeofchen]

I also decided to reinstall the OEM intake box back on by myself (I paid to have the CSL box installed when I got it) and while it was mechanically easy to do, those damn oetiker intake clamps were a BITCH to put back on. I literally spent like 2-3 hours putting the 3 rear ones back on. After I finished the job, I read a thread where they said to put it on the clamps while the intake was still off and click it to the first holder, but I read that too late haha. I don't know if I want to do that again.

Those f'ing oetiker clamps man, the first few times it took me hours to figure out a body position laid across the engine bay and get a small set of pliers placed perfectly on the nubs.

I'm guessing there's a better tool out there, but hopefully I won't be fussing with them anytime soon until I get myself an OE style Karb box.

[Gt4]

This is precisely what I have and I think it sounds fantastic, however, its been noted you will drop a some small amount of HP (be interesting to see dyno with RE rasp and muffler). Sound wise it is tough to beat assuming you don't want rasp.

You will have drone from 2k to 3k. I'm in a convertible and don't care.

I think Rogue El Diablo lost hp compare to stock on a HPF car (turbo with around 5-600whp). They tested couple differents exhaust setup back in the days.

Not sure it's that noticeable on a close to stock NA engine tho.

[dukeofchen]

I havent driven in a car with CSL intake yet, but as everyone says it sounds glorious, but smog in CA is really holding me back. I may go with OEM Karb box. I do have the eventuri intake and it has enhanced the cars sound.

Got my hands on an Eventuri recently and now I find myself wanting more of that addictive sound. Aside from the OEM Karb option I recently got in touch with that guy in Germany that makes a clone of the Z4 intake elbow with a sound pipe that connects through the firewall.

No bling factor and comparisons to modern fake speaker sounds are to be expected, but as someone that prioritizes driver enjoyment above all else hearing that beautiful sound in the cabin has been a gamechanger after 10+ years without it.

[kook]

Quick review for those with a cone intake system thinking about moving to a CSL box:
Another thing that is night and day is the tune. Yes I heard that Alpha N tunes were fine, but after putting back the stock tune (actually I think I have a Dinan Stage 1 tune on the car, bought it this way) the ride is SO refined. Especially at low RPMS. Everything is less frantic and smooth.

My car with an OEM CSL intake was on an Alpha-N tune for years, from 2010 to 2022, and to be quite honest it was a bit of a pig. I knew it had some tuning 'problems' but just endured it because of that glorious CSL intake/Supersprint muffler combo. In 2022 I decided to make the switch to MAP sensor tune and the difference is night & day. The car is more refined, smoother, no jerkiness & other crap, fine at very low speeds and so immediately responsive now. It's far more pleasant to drive, I wish I had never gone with the Alpha-N tune, maybe that's all they had back in 2010, I can't remember. I also went through 4 different mufflers trying to get the intake/exhaust sound I wanted before I finally settled on the Supersprint, I personally think it's the best muffler for these cars also, again just my opinion.

Anyway, ditch that Alpha-N and switch to the MAP sensor tune. Trust me, your car will be bloody brilliant after that. Honestly the difference between Alpha & MAP is night & day, I'd switch to MAP before changing your whole setup. CSL intake with MAP sensor tune is THE best mod one can make to these cars imo. If I was buying another E46 it would be the very first mod I'd make to the car. 👍👍

[maupineda]

strange the OP feedback, but we are all different. one thing I can understand is the drivability of the MAF setup, is tough to beat. the Z4M is less sensitive to it, but I can attest that MAF v Alpha-N is indeed different, being MAF much smoother and hiccups free. however, the noise is in a different league, not only volume, but the quality of the sound.

[Phoenix///M3]

Just curious which Alpha N tune(s) were you guys not happy with. The HTE tune I have with Karb box is spot on. There's no jerkiness, no lag and smooth all around. Pulls hard all the way up.

I thought this would be a stop gap until I did full MAP conversion but with how it runs and cost of parts plus needing an HP DME I can't justify it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[6speedS54]

Those f'ing oetiker clamps man, the first few times it took me hours to figure out a body position laid across the engine bay and get a small set of pliers placed perfectly on the nubs.

I'm guessing there's a better tool out there, but hopefully I won't be fussing with them anytime soon until I get myself an OE style Karb box.

I bought this tool before dealing with the intake after watching a few videos, was pretty straight forward after you understand how they work.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002SREB8?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

[jpy1980]

Those f'ing oetiker clamps man, the first few times it took me hours to figure out a body position laid across the engine bay and get a small set of pliers placed perfectly on the nubs.

I'm guessing there's a better tool out there, but hopefully I won't be fussing with them anytime soon until I get myself an OE style Karb box.

Haha, I totally get what you are saying. I was making sweet sweet love to the fender and engine bay trying to get these on and off.

I think Rogue El Diablo lost hp compare to stock on a HPF car (turbo with around 5-600whp). They tested couple differents exhaust setup back in the days.

Not sure it's that noticeable on a close to stock NA engine tho.

Yea I heard that too, but I honestly don't care about eeking out so much horsepower. After I got my EV, chasing horsepower on an ICE became a joke. Now I just want theatre and drama when I drive. like wringing my s54 and let it howl. I think I just want a different howl, such as the exhaust.

Got my hands on an Eventuri recently and now I find myself wanting more of that addictive sound. Aside from the OEM Karb option I recently got in touch with that guy in Germany that makes a clone of the Z4 intake elbow with a sound pipe that connects through the firewall.

No bling factor and comparisons to modern fake speaker sounds are to be expected, but as someone that prioritizes driver enjoyment above all else hearing that beautiful sound in the cabin has been a gamechanger after 10+ years without it.

I dunno man, if you're going to go through all that trouble installing the OEM Karb box, might as well go all the way since you're gonna have to take it off for smog anyways. It won't pass visual.

My car with an OEM CSL intake was on an Alpha-N tune for years, from 2010 to 2022, and to be quite honest it was a bit of a pig. I knew it had some tuning 'problems' but just endured it because of that glorious CSL intake/Supersprint muffler combo. In 2022 I decided to make the switch to MAP sensor tune and the difference is night & day. The car is more refined, smoother, no jerkiness & other crap, fine at very low speeds and so immediately responsive now. It's far more pleasant to drive, I wish I had never gone with the Alpha-N tune, maybe that's all they had back in 2010, I can't remember. I also went through 4 different mufflers trying to get the intake/exhaust sound I wanted before I finally settled on the Supersprint, I personally think it's the best muffler for these cars also, again just my opinion.

Anyway, ditch that Alpha-N and switch to the MAP sensor tune. Trust me, your car will be bloody brilliant after that. Honestly the difference between Alpha & MAP is night & day, I'd switch to MAP before changing your whole setup. CSL intake with MAP sensor tune is THE best mod one can make to these cars imo. If I was buying another E46 it would be the very first mod I'd make to the car. 👍👍

Since I have a pre 2003, I would need a new computer right? What would be the steps to change it to a map sensor tune from an Alpha N? Don't I have to do something with the fuel pressure rail or something, pin my ECU and stuff?

Just curious which Alpha N tune(s) were you guys not happy with. The HTE tune I have with Karb box is spot on. There's no jerkiness, no lag and smooth all around. Pulls hard all the way up.

I thought this would be a stop gap until I did full MAP conversion but with how it runs and cost of parts plus needing an HP DME I can't justify it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have the HTE tune. It's really not that bad, but the OEM tune is just that much smoother. Daily drivability with the HTE tune is fine and fun (pulls like a freight train). The only time I had any issues was when I was getting out of a tight slow speed situation, like backing up and moving forward into a parking space. You just have to give it a bit more gas to keep the revs up in order for the car not to die. It's also a little herky jerky if you give it too much gas. Anyways, once again, not that bad!

I bought this tool before dealing with the intake after watching a few videos, was pretty straight forward after you understand how they work.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002SREB8...sin_title&th=1

Yea this tool definitely helped me take the clamps off!


All in all, if I didn't have to SMOG the car every 2 years, I would definitely keep it and maybe I would do the MAP sensor upgrade. But as this is my first SMOG after installing this ( I bought the car 2 years ago), dealing with the uninstallation and also now trying getting all the SMOG sensors (Cat, EVAP, Oxygen Sensor) ready (its a difficult process. Hard to do the drive cycle with a busy family life and LA traffic), I'm kinda over it haha.

The car is very quiet though. hahah. smooth but quiet. =)

[jpy1980]

My car with an OEM CSL intake was on an Alpha-N tune for years, from 2010 to 2022, and to be quite honest it was a bit of a pig. I knew it had some tuning 'problems' but just endured it because of that glorious CSL intake/Supersprint muffler combo. In 2022 I decided to make the switch to MAP sensor tune and the difference is night & day. The car is more refined, smoother, no jerkiness & other crap, fine at very low speeds and so immediately responsive now. It's far more pleasant to drive, I wish I had never gone with the Alpha-N tune, maybe that's all they had back in 2010, I can't remember. I also went through 4 different mufflers trying to get the intake/exhaust sound I wanted before I finally settled on the Supersprint, I personally think it's the best muffler for these cars also, again just my opinion.

Anyway, ditch that Alpha-N and switch to the MAP sensor tune. Trust me, your car will be bloody brilliant after that. Honestly the difference between Alpha & MAP is night & day, I'd switch to MAP before changing your whole setup. CSL intake with MAP sensor tune is THE best mod one can make to these cars imo. If I was buying another E46 it would be the very first mod I'd make to the car. 👍👍

Which Supersprint exhaust?