Best CSL Airbox Setup?

[Kipjames3]

Why is dyno tune only an option with Kassel? Why can’t you go custom with the others? I asked for OTS tune that way I could drive the car immediately after installing the airbox, knowing well that I would follow up with a dyno tune.

It's not. I was just clarifying that I would be doing a dyno, not just OTS, right after install. But maybe I'll just grab a OTS to get it home and then go with another tuner from there.

[Nardo S54]

It's not. I was just clarifying that I would be doing a dyno, not just OTS, right after install. But maybe I'll just grab a OTS to get it home and then go with another tuner from there.

Right but you should go custom with whichever tuner you go with. And between HTE and Kassel, guessing most would recommend HTE.

Why not do the install yourself? It’s one of the more straightforward DIY’s imo. Way easier than a suspension or exhaust work.

[Kipjames3]

Right but you should go custom with whichever tuner you go with. And between HTE and Kassel, guessing most would recommend HTE.

Why not do the install yourself? It’s one of the more straightforward DIY’s imo. Way easier than a suspension or exhaust work.

But with Kassel I can do a dyno tune versus an email tune through HTE. I'm new to the platform but for my other cars I've tuned, an on-site dyno tune is normally better than a email tune. So I wasn't sure if Kassel dyno would be better than another company's non-dyno tune.

[Slideways]

If you did pick up something in my video, I am highly impressed because that clip was when I was running the OTS tune. Track video was taken 2 weeks later after I got the custom dyno tune. But I honestly never noticed any lag issues before or after. Throttle input always felt responsive and smooth. In the video I don’t recall downshifting to rev match… I may have been holding the revs when deciding to slow down or speed up during the merge?

Do you match revs on downshifts? Even in the track video, you could hear a lot of engine braking on downshifts when the revs fell below 4k.

[Nardo S54]

But with Kassel I can do a dyno tune versus an email tune through HTE. I'm new to the platform but for my other cars I've tuned, an on-site dyno tune is normally better than a email tune. So I wasn't sure if Kassel dyno would be better than another company's non-dyno tune.

Just because HTE isn’t physically at the dyno with you doesn’t mean they can’t dyno tune. Most tuners remote into to your pc while the car is being dyno’d and will tweak the maps on the fly.

But to make logistics easier (as I mentioned in my previous post), you can request an OTS map that way you can make your way to the dyno with the hardware pre-installed. And once you arrive, they can perform the dyno tuning remotely. But for avoidance of doubt you are not buying 2 separate tunes (OTS vs dyno) from 2 different tuners. Rather 2 tunes as part of a 2-step process from the same tuner.

[Nardo S54]

Do you match revs on downshifts? Even in the track video, you could hear a lot of engine braking on downshifts when the revs fell below 4k.

Feel like we’re taking this thread off course. But yes I rev match on downshifts but that video is little misleading. First few corners are heavy trail braking and there were few instances where I just let off throttle whenever the Miata didn’t give me space to pass (so you hear the revs drop quickly from my flywheel).

But ignoring the telemetry as there’s some lag with the OBD, you can hear an example of downshift rev match at 1:22. But at 1:42 I don’t because I’m already at redline and it’s a very late apex off-camber turn. So no need really as it’s more about being patient with throttle exit.

[Kipjames3]

Just because HTE isn’t physically at the dyno with you doesn’t mean they can’t dyno tune. Most tuners remote into to your pc while the car is being dyno’d and will tweak the maps on the fly.

But to make logistics easier (as I mentioned in my previous post), you can request an OTS map that way you can make your way to the dyno with the hardware pre-installed. And once you arrive, they can perform the dyno tuning remotely. But for avoidance of doubt you are not buying 2 separate tunes (OTS vs dyno) from 2 different tuners. Rather 2 tunes as part of a 2-step process from the same tuner.

So I'd have find another dyno (other than Kassels, unless they allow dyno time for other tuners) to run the car on while it's being remote tuned via HTE? Sorry for the all the questions but I've only ever done tunes through emails after returning files to the tuner, via Cobb Accessport, after doing a few WOT pulls. I've never had any car dyno tuned.

[Nardo S54]

So I'd have find another dyno (other than Kassels, unless they allow dyno time for other tuners) to run the car on while it's being remote tuned via HTE? Sorry for the all the questions but I've only ever done tunes through emails after returning files to the tuner, via Cobb Accessport, after doing a few WOT pulls. I've never had any car dyno tuned.

Yes believe it or not that’s why most people rent time on the dyno

[Kipjames3]

Yes believe it or not that’s why most people rent time on the dyno

Ha. Makes sense.

So they also mentioned flashing the converting to the CSL map? Now is that something different than a dyno tune?

Here's their estimate. I'm sure they wouldn't mind me sharing this as it's probably their going rate for everything.

My car is also 2004 so I wouldn't need to new DME.

[Slideways]

Feel like we’re taking this thread off course. But yes I rev match on downshifts but that video is little misleading. First few corners are heavy trail braking and there were few instances where I just let off throttle whenever the Miata didn’t give me space to pass (so you hear the revs drop quickly from my flywheel).

But ignoring the telemetry as there’s some lag with the OBD, you can hear an example of downshift rev march at 1:22. But at 1:42 I don’t because I’m already at redline and it’s a very late apex off-camber turn. So no need really as it’s more about being patient with throttle exit.

Yeah, if I get a chance to test that other Z4M after it gets a revised tune, I'll make a new thread with an update on its drivability. The reason I was asking is because the car previously had an EPIC tune and I was going to suggest putting that tune back on to see if that tune had the same issue.

An E46 M3 on an old MSS54 Alpha-N base tune had the same exact issue as the Z4M above.

[Sharocks]

This is my opinion on this since I researched this in great detail before pulling the trigger on my CSL intake.

I've driven and been in real CSL's for reference.

I've also driven and been in US/Canadian cars with OE CSL intakes.

Compared to Evolve, Karb, Haimus, Turner, Bimmerworld, the OE intakes sound much cleaner.

The noise from an actual CSL is very different from just slapping the box into a US spec car because the CSL has a lot of things missing to make it sound louder.

What you need to factor when considering a CSL intake is if you're doing it for sound, what exhaust setup do you have?

Because if you're catless with anything more than say a SS Sport, you ain't hearing that intake much.

Next, are you getting the intake for power? If so, expect maybe 5-10 whp on a non-hot day with minimal humidity.

For tuning, I went with HTE Tuning aka Hassan.

There are other options and people will do whatever they want at the end of the day but it all comes down to what you want your car to do.

I think there's a large following for slapping in a CSL intake and having it operate like an actual CSL while also having a hodge podge of random parts on the car to further complicate the process.

I personally feel like that's stupid since you're changing a lot to the car, you can't really expect it to drive like you didn't do a thing to it.

Case and point: Alpha N vs. MAP - I went with Alpha N because it's much more simple. Does it drive perfect? It's an E46 M3, it's flawed from the factory.

MAP is what you do when you want it to drive like an actual CSL even though an actual CSL doesn't really drive that much different.

I've driven MAP cars with tunes from various folks and I can't say I can feel much of difference other than low end responsiveness but let's be honest, it's not a torquey engine, under 3k I don't expect much and nor do I really care for it.

For manual cars, throttle blipping for rev matching is an area of concern as some tunes do a less than stellar job of this.

My rankings on the intakes based on first hand experience:

OE CSL (duh)
Karb (fit and finish is excellent)
Evolve (it looks different and it's actually built really well)
Haimus (I'm not supporting ECS)
Turner AKA ECS (LOL)
Bimmerworld (they're old and they're decent)

What I went with: Goke Motorsports CSL Intake

Reasoning: My car is loud and I wanted the thinnest CF intake I could find that had the largest opening for more air into it.

Does it sound the best? Nah.

Can I hear it without changing my exhaust setup?

Also no, but it's too late now.

Hope this helps.

[Nardo S54]

Ha. Makes sense.

So they also mentioned flashing the converting to the CSL map? Now is that something different than a dyno tune?

Here's their estimate. I'm sure they wouldn't mind me sharing this as it's probably their going rate for everything.

My car is also 2004 so I wouldn't need to new DME.

You should ask them but doesn’t seem like it since the dyno tune is a separate line item for $695.

All I know is $5900 is a lot. Keep in mind you will likely have to pull the box out every few years for emissions. Are you going to pay someone then to swap back each time? If so maybe you’re better off going with the OE style.

Next, are you getting the intake for power? If so, expect maybe 5-10 whp on a non-hot day with minimal humidity.

That's simply not true. Admittedly, I initially held the same views which is why I resisted going CSL for many years. I'll spare folks the boring details of my CSL journey but short version is tuning makes all the difference. Granted MSS54 and MSS70 aren't exactly apples-to-apples but 5-10whp is what I'd expect at min if you went with a canned tune. Get a proper dyno tune from a reputable tuner and the gains are easily 20whp+. In my case I picked up over 35whp.

My rankings on the intakes based on first hand experience:

OE CSL (duh)
Karb (fit and finish is excellent)
Evolve (it looks different and it's actually built really well)
Haimus (I'm not supporting ECS)
Turner AKA ECS (LOL)
Bimmerworld (they're old and they're decent)

Interesting take as I would've put Evolve way down on the list based on the issues with their earlier boxes. I believe they updated their manufacturing process since but it's hard to erase from memory how sh*tty their first release was. As for TMS, I was really skeptical as I am with all ECS products. I rank ECS even below UUC which is saying a lot. But many people have been running TMS v2 for years now without issue and importantly, the dynos show gains over other brands.

[Sharocks]

That's simply not true. Admittedly, I initially held the same views which is why I resisted going CSL for many years. I'll spare folks the boring details of my CSL journey but short version is tuning makes all the difference. Granted MSS54 and MSS70 aren't exactly apples-to-apples but 5-10whp is what I'd expect at min if you went with a canned tune. Get a proper dyno tune from a reputable tuner and the gains are easily 20whp+. In my case I picked up over 35whp.

I'm assuming OP's car is stock.

I'm FBO+ so I made 350 whp on a Mustang Dyno in 90 degree weather.

I know the tune is more important but if you don't have the parts to support it breathing it doesn't do that much.

Interesting take as I would've put Evolve way down on the list based on the issues with their earlier boxes. I believe they updated their manufacturing process since but it's hard to erase from memory how sh*tty their first release was. As for TMS, I was really skeptical as I am with all ECS products. I rank ECS even below UUC which is saying a lot. But many people have been running TMS v2 for years now without issue and importantly, the dynos show gains over other brands.

You have to remember that Evolve was the first few companies to have a rep CSL intake available stateside.

Back then circa 2010 it was Bimmerworld for 3k or Evolve for like 4k.

Yea the earlier versions had issues but I've seen issues with every CSL intake brand except OE.

Many people have been running ECS airboxes because they sold them cheap.

If just getting the job done was enough, sure it's decent enough.

Overall if I had to get another one, I'd just get a Karb.

[Kipjames3]

You should ask them but doesn’t seem like it since the dyno tune is a separate line item for $695.

All I know is $5900 is a lot. Keep in mind you will likely have to pull the box out every few years for emissions. Are you going to pay someone then to swap back each time? If so maybe you’re better off going with the OE style.

What's the going rate for the whole process not including the box obviously?

And I didn't even think of emissions. There's no tune or way around that? I won't have a visual check since I'm in Maryland so I'd just need to plug up to the station to get it checked obviously.

[Kipjames3]

This is my opinion on this since I researched this in great detail before pulling the trigger on my CSL intake.

I've driven and been in real CSL's for reference.

I've also driven and been in US/Canadian cars with OE CSL intakes.

Compared to Evolve, Karb, Haimus, Turner, Bimmerworld, the OE intakes sound much cleaner.

The noise from an actual CSL is very different from just slapping the box into a US spec car because the CSL has a lot of things missing to make it sound louder.

What you need to factor when considering a CSL intake is if you're doing it for sound, what exhaust setup do you have?

Because if you're catless with anything more than say a SS Sport, you ain't hearing that intake much.

Next, are you getting the intake for power? If so, expect maybe 5-10 whp on a non-hot day with minimal humidity.

For tuning, I went with HTE Tuning aka Hassan.

There are other options and people will do whatever they want at the end of the day but it all comes down to what you want your car to do.

I think there's a large following for slapping in a CSL intake and having it operate like an actual CSL while also having a hodge podge of random parts on the car to further complicate the process.

I personally feel like that's stupid since you're changing a lot to the car, you can't really expect it to drive like you didn't do a thing to it.

Case and point: Alpha N vs. MAP - I went with Alpha N because it's much more simple. Does it drive perfect? It's an E46 M3, it's flawed from the factory.

MAP is what you do when you want it to drive like an actual CSL even though an actual CSL doesn't really drive that much different.

I've driven MAP cars with tunes from various folks and I can't say I can feel much of difference other than low end responsiveness but let's be honest, it's not a torquey engine, under 3k I don't expect much and nor do I really care for it.

For manual cars, throttle blipping for rev matching is an area of concern as some tunes do a less than stellar job of this.

My rankings on the intakes based on first hand experience:

OE CSL (duh)
Karb (fit and finish is excellent)
Evolve (it looks different and it's actually built really well)
Haimus (I'm not supporting ECS)
Turner AKA ECS (LOL)
Bimmerworld (they're old and they're decent)

What I went with: Goke Motorsports CSL Intake

Reasoning: My car is loud and I wanted the thinnest CF intake I could find that had the largest opening for more air into it.

Does it sound the best? Nah.

Can I hear it without changing my exhaust setup?

Also no, but it's too late now.

Hope this helps.

I honestly just want the look and sounds. I'm not trying to make a track monster or do a ridiculous bulld. Right now my car is stock other than a borla exhaust which I might be swapping back to OE anyway. I did plan into looking into some headers possibly. Still trying to decide where I'd like to go with that car but I'm definitely leaning towards airbox first then figure out exhaust stuff later.