Schroth Quick Fit and Recaro Sportster CS

[E46m3zcp]

Hello,

Tired of bracing myself on the track, and ending up with a sore left leg the next day.. I'm wondering if that combination would be reasonable. Do we have some safety nerds that could comment on why the Recaro Sportster CS might not be approved by Schroth for use with their quick fit?

I'm looking for a solution that won't make me lose the practicality of my rear seats while being able to use a harness and lose the weight of the heavy stock seats. I am considering 4 options:
- Stock seats + Schroth quick fit pro ... approved by Schroth, foldable back, heavy AF
- Cobra nogaros + Schroth quick fit pro ... fixed back =
- Recaro sportster CS + Schroth quick fit pro ... not approved by Schroth
- Sportster CS + roll bar + true harness - that's the most invasive, trying to avoid.

What is the forum wisdom?

[heinzboehmer]

Before you get a set of Sportsters, you should go sit in one. The harness holes are too low for a lot of people (myself included) on those seats.

Might be part of the reason why Schroth doesn't approve that combo.

[D-O]

Swapping the drivers seat for track days is not too big a deal, IMO. You can get a Recaro Pole Position ABE or Cobra Nogaro seat, and either a set of used OE sliders and a Brey-Krause mount for the OE sliders, or a set of Brey-Krause direct to floor mounts.

And as Heinz suggested, don't buy a seat without sitting in it first.

note - the Pole Position ABE is approved by Schroth

[jayjaya29]

Its no replacement for proper harnesses but have you tried sliding the seat back, locking the seat belt and while holding it under tension, move the seat forward, essentially "locking" you in. A product like a CG Lock (now called shoft ?) can also help.

[bigjae46]

Schroth crash tested the quick fits with the stock seats. Don't think they tested with other seats. A quick fit pro will allow you to wear a HANS and holds you in decently well. Of course, a race seat and a 6 pt is better. I do believe you can add sub straps to a quick fit pro.

I'll probably get blasted by the safety police that tell you that the roof will cave in and kill you...but I'd run a containment race seat with a quick fit pro w/ sub strap. Here's why. First, you're in better control of the car which I think is a far superior trade off to being able to be pushed down in your seat if the roof collapses.

Second - rollover deaths due to a roof collapsing is EXTREMELY rare. That is simply an uninformed false narrative. Rollover injuries and deaths are more often caused by the body coming into contact with the pavement or an interior surface. When the car lands of its side (far more common), the side of the body and/or head can strike the pavement with several G's of acceleration. The issue with submarining isn't smashing your knees against the dashboard - it is the 2nd, 3rd, 4th impact. Once the occupant becomes unrestrained then the risk and severity of injury increase massively. The car's roof will typically collapse at the windshield, not over the b pillar - so if you're unrestrained and roof collapses, and then it lands on the roof again, your head is more likely to hit the pavement vs being restrained.

I'm sorry, the whole...you'll get your head crushed in during a rollover so it is safer for you to be in a restraint that allows you to get pushed down as the roof caves in so you can walk away is retarded. But to each their own...no judgement from me.

[bigjae46]

Swapping the drivers seat for track days is not too big a deal, IMO.

Bro, I hate installing a race seat. The stupid inner side mount bolts? And then getting the heavy ass stock seat out without dinging something sucks massive balls.

[Obioban]

Yeah-- because the quick fits come down at such an extreme angle compared to most belts, Schroth tests every seat they approve them for to make sure they can take the load. The CS has not been tested (or at least has not passed).

Do test fit the CS. For me, the CS harness holes are mid back-- complete non starter for safely using harnessed.

... I kind of think CSs are THE most over rated seat, entirely because they're cool looking. They're not that much lighter (once you have them mounted), they don't allow you to get much lower, they're not particularly more supportive than stock, the harness holes are stupidly low... and you give up a ton of adjustability vs stock.

If you do go through with getting them, you can get an anti submarining 4 point from Schroth (https://www.schrothracing.com/item/p...ia-4-point-asm) and mount it with this to the rear decks seat belt mount points: https://www.bkauto.com/R_1246_E46_Re...t_p/r-1246.htm

That prevents the seat from getting loaded up by the belt angle. Same anti sub tech as the quick fit, but doesn't clip in to the factory lap belts in the rear.

You will have to figure out a front mounting solution. I got a factory e46 lap belt clip for the inboard lap belt (allowed me to keep the factory pre tensioner functional with the harness) and half of this kit for the outboard on an e46 sedan slider (has an outboard belt mount point): https://www.bkauto.com/R_9225_Clip_I...s_p/r-9225.htm

That way my entire setup is clip in/clip out, and attached to factory seat belt mount points.

[9kracing]

... I kind of think CSs are THE most over rated seat, entirely because they're cool looking. They're not that much lighter (once you have them mounted), they don't allow you to get much lower, they're not particularly more supportive than stock, the harness holes are stupidly low... and you give up a ton of adjustability vs stock.

Dude.

I've noticed on this forum people try to justify their purchases, or lack there of... but this here is just wrong, in every aspect.



The Recaros are half the weight of the stock seats. 33lbs vs 65 lbs... that's a ton lighter.

They absolutely go way lower than the stock seats, but since most people use cheap or shitty mounts, you probably haven't sat in them with actual Recaro mounts

They are FAR more supportive than stock, are you kidding me??

I also don't understand how you're giving up adjustability... they tilt forward and back, and slide forward and back... just like the factory seats.

Now whether the harness holes are too low depends on a lot of factors, but I'll just give you that one for the sake of argument.



Still, the Recaro CS is a substantial upgrade from the 25 year old seats that came in this car, which were designed for comfort and not support.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion though, no matter how wrong it may be :P

[Obioban]

Dude.

I've noticed on this forum people try to justify their purchases, or lack there of... but this here is just wrong, in every aspect.



The Recaros are half the weight of the stock seats. 33lbs vs 65 lbs... that's a ton lighter.

They absolutely go way lower than the stock seats, but since most people use cheap or shitty mounts, you probably haven't sat in them with actual Recaro mounts

They are FAR more supportive than stock, are you kidding me??

I also don't understand how you're giving up adjustability... they tilt forward and back, and slide forward and back... just like the factory seats.

Now whether the harness holes are too low depends on a lot of factors, but I'll just give you that one for the sake of argument.



Still, the Recaro CS is a substantial upgrade from the 25 year old seats that came in this car, which were designed for comfort and not support.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion though, no matter how wrong it may be :P

CS came out 20 years ago, so not exactly hugely newer than the 25 year old stock seat 😛

You are comparing the weights of the seat alone (CS) vs seat AND mounts (stock)-- that's why I said "once mounted there's not much weight savings".

The CS's are bottom mounted seats. Bottom mounted seats are inherently ALWAYS going to be higher than side mounted seats, because you need to leave space for the mounts-- below them.

Mount "quality":
The recaro mounts require "Recaro" slides (which are not actually made by recaro)-- and the Recaro sliders are not strong enough to mount belts above. For that reason, I do not like the Recaro mounts-- if you use them, the belts are only properly located in once specific seat position, OR have a seat belt that won't secure you to the car in a serious crash. If you look at cars that come with Recaros stock, they never use Recaro mounts-- this is why.

Support: I guess this may be a subjective one, but I've never found them more supportive than stock (or at least stock with the adjustable side bolsters).

Harness hole being too low really only depends on one factor-- height. But... you'd have to be pretty crazy short for them not to pose a safety issue. I think the CS's harness holes must be more of a styling element that something they expect you to actually use.

Adjustability... not sure if you're serious but all the ways the stock seats are adjustable, with the ones the CS's can do bolded:
Seat fore/aft
Seatback recline
Seat height
thigh support depth
Seat base tilt
Lumbar up/down
Lumber in/out
Side bolster width
Temperature

[Obioban]

CSs mounted on the OE Recaro mounts, in the lowest possible position. Clearly/visibly, not low :P

Also note the seat belt mount point above the slides that can't take the load of a seat belt in a crash.

I don't think the Recaro mounts are the standard that should be aimed for, here.

Vs, for context, my side mounted seat to the factory slide, with the seat belt mounts to the factory seat belt mount point:

[Obioban]

And just to drive the slider point home...

This video is the same slider that recaro sells:

... really not something you want to mount belts above.

[usdmej]

Hello,

Tired of bracing myself on the track, and ending up with a sore left leg the next day.. I'm wondering if that combination would be reasonable. Do we have some safety nerds that could comment on why the Recaro Sportster CS might not be approved by Schroth for use with their quick fit?

I'm looking for a solution that won't make me lose the practicality of my rear seats while being able to use a harness and lose the weight of the heavy stock seats. I am considering 4 options:
- Stock seats + Schroth quick fit pro ... approved by Schroth, foldable back, heavy AF
- Cobra nogaros + Schroth quick fit pro ... fixed back =
- Recaro sportster CS + Schroth quick fit pro ... not approved by Schroth
- Sportster CS + roll bar + true harness - that's the most invasive, trying to avoid.

What is the forum wisdom?

my first hand based $.02

sportster CS
- way more comfortable than stock seats for me (think dd and road trip duty), but in high G driving they did not hold you down any tighter than stock seats.
- when all the mounting hardware is said and done, you are <10 pounds weight savings per seat so not all that significant. sparco SPX is a better option for a weight savings recliner
- you can get them super low if you use swiss cheese mounts and sliders. im 5'10 and eventually switched from that to BK mounts to raise the seating position


if you can live with the stock seats i'd just buy the schroth quick fits and give it a shot. 4pt harnesses really let you cinch down your body to the seat and actually give a lot more seat holding as a by-product

[Flow]

And just to drive the slider point home...

This video is the same slider that recaro sells:

... really not something you want to mount belts above.

This is quite alarming to me.
I have Recaro sliders that have the ABE certification in my car. They are TUV approved in Germany which is not known to be very complacent .
Are there multiple slider types ?

[Obioban]

This is quite alarming to me.
I have Recaro sliders that have the ABE certification in my car. They are TUV approved in Germany which is not known to be very complacent .
Are there multiple slider types ?

As far as I know, the only slider Recaro sells are these, with and without mounting tabs:



^either way, the above style is what is being tested in that video.

[Flow]

As far as I know, the only slider Recaro sells are these, with and without mounting tabs:



^either way, the above style is what is being tested in that video.

That looks exactly like what I have.
Damn that looks unsafe.