no-nonesense track brake setup

[bigjae46]

FMSI pad shape is DR63 for the CAR97 caliper. Not many pad choices. Pagid Yellow and PFC PF13. Ferodo pads galore though...meh.

[9kracing]

Paragon's pads are made by Winmax Japan, which I realize isn't the Apex of brake pads, but at least they aren't made in China like their rotors.

[E46m3zcp]

Anyone has experience with these rotors ? That's what I have, but I'm wondering if it is part of my problem or not, as they are really cheap.

The description says that they may have a lower carbon content.

Note for track use: Aftermarket rotors typically have a lower carbon content than Genuine BMW or our OEM rotors. High Carbon rotors are preferred - but generally not required - for track use because of their improved thermal management and durability. We've run Aftermarket brands on our own race and track cars with no issues but every situation is different and there may be noticeable effects switching from one to the other.

[George Hill]

What brand are they? I didn’t see it listed unless I missed it?

[E46m3zcp]

I think what happens is BW does not guarantee one in particular with this purchase.

when I bought them I got Fremax. My question assumes they’re still the same Fremax 325x28.

[George Hill]

Never heard of Fremax myself, but I've been running Textar and Zimmerman. I feel like we've also run the DEF3 and/or WBR but can't recall for sure.

[CrookedCommie]

I never got the brakes to work correctly on my old track car, going through multiple iterations of brake setups. Granted it was MK20 so I believe that was the main culprit. I tried rebuilding stock brakes, brass pins, ss lines, two piece rotors all 4 corners, brake ducting. Next iteration was a front AP CP8350 kit, that's the smaller 4 piston one. Then I added rear AP calipers. Then I upgraded to the big boy CP9668 kit up front. Still never worked great likely due to the MK20, although it did get better.

The new race car is getting CP9668 up front, CP9451 rears, everything is brand new including the mk60 booster, master cylinder, and it's getting a Continental Teves motorsport flash on a MK60E1 abs unit. I think the brake setup of the race car is worth more than the cost of the donor car. We'll see how well it works!

[prostcfc]

Currently running stock calipers, blank Zimmermanns, Endless N35S pads F+R and Endless RF-650 fluid. I buy Endless products straight from Japan in Yen, and pay well under half of what vendors in the States charge (e.g., my pads were under $325 air mailed, and fluid is around $20-25 shipped per 500 ml bottle, depending on the exchange rate); the pads are made to order though, so it does take some advanced planning.

[Estoril]

@OldRanger: Good talking to you at the track yesterday, as always. To others: OldRanger is the real deal. Props.

[E46m3zcp]

Currently running stock calipers, blank Zimmermanns, Endless N35S pads F+R and Endless RF-650 fluid. I buy Endless products straight from Japan in Yen, and pay well under half of what vendors in the States charge (e.g., my pads were under $325 air mailed, and fluid is around $20-25 shipped per 500 ml bottle, depending on the exchange rate); the pads are made to order though, so it does take some advanced planning.

Who's the distributor you use?

[prostcfc]

Who's the distributor you use?

RHDJapan

[liam821]

To address the heat issue, only dedicated track pads are going to do it. EBC blue are street/track, which is not dedicated track.

The benefits of a good BBK are..
better pedal feel
faster/easier pad swaps
longer pad life
often reduced unsprung/rotating mass

They're a great upgrade-- and not going to solve your heat issue. So, consider those two questions separately :P

Just to reiterate - this is the way. If you're really going to try for lap times, you must run a dedicated track pad and fancy high-temp brake fluid. And those track pads don't work very well on the street, they'll eat brake rotors for lunch when they're cold and won't stop (well) without having some heat in them. So if you're driving to the track, you're gonna want to be swapping pads - which is a pain in the ass with floating calipers and why BBKs are a thing.

Another thing on that BBK list above is heat management; they generally have a thicker, wider brake pad, which helps with heat distribution.

I should add that not all BBKs are equal, too. Some are definitely more geared towards the street and others towards the track. I run an AP racing motorsports BBK setup on my track car, which does not use dust boots - great for a track car, not so great on a street car.

[Gstlund]

With modern race pads there's no need to swap pads. They work without any mayor issues regarding cold function or disc wear.
20 years ago when using old compound as PFC97 then there was issues with disc wear when cold. Since PFC08, PFC11 or Ferodo 3-12 I haven't had any problems with cold bite or disc wear.

[Estoril]

With modern race pads there's no need to swap pads. They work without any mayor issues regarding cold function or disc wear.
20 years ago when using old compound as PFC97 then there was issues with disc wear when cold. Since PFC08, PFC11 or Ferodo 3-12 I haven't had any problems with cold bite or disc wear.

I have used PFC-11 since the PFC-01 compound became limited in most pad shapes. My experience is that your view on cold bite is incorrect.

Your view is also inconsistent with Performance Friction's own test data and statements re: cold vs hot effectiveness..

[Obioban]

Going grocery shopping.

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Picking my kid up from school.
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