CSL AIrbox w/ MAP/IAT flash tune poll

[4getr34]

Seems like the last year these are the 3 top tunes people get aside from custom dyno tune.
Mixed reviews for Kassel while HTE and Mullet are both very positive and popular. Please provide any long term sentiment for those of you who have been running a csl airbox with MAP/IAT setup.

[bavarian3]

I think most of us get one of HTE or Mullet now days and stick with it. Avedis has tried both iirc.

[bmwfnatic]

I have seen all 3 tunes in Tunerpro diff'ing them against base CSL.
I believe Kassel just set the cam offsets posted here and not much else.
HTE is loved here but looking at the changes he did I don't really understand why, don't attack me on this it is simply an observation.
Bry5on his tune is the only one that I would consider worthwhile.

[tnord]

Epic is the only one that's been around for the entirety of the 15+yrs I've had the car. Everything else comes and goes.

[tnord]

Epic is the only one that's been around for the entirety of the 15+yrs I've had the car. Everything else comes and goes.

I have the Kassel MAP solution, with their tune, and they did the HP conversion. It mostly works, but there's some low RPM hesitation on downshifts that bothers me. Could be the tune, could be something else.

[Obioban]

Epic is the only one that's been around for the entirety of the 15+yrs I've had the car. Everything else comes and goes.

You can still buy the Dinan and Conforti tunes from 20+ years ago, and they're still crap.

[samthejam]

I do not have a carbon airbox yet, as I do not want to install it and have any drivability issues as that would drive me crazy and IMO defeat the whole point of spending all that money. Here is my perception from lurking.

The mullet from Bry5on appears to be the only option that is truly a calibration rather than a traditional performance tune. It is also being actively developed by people and tested by those who actually drive their cars regularly. It is not really aimed at peak performance, but instead at delivering a solid OE style tune, which honestly is what most people need far more than an ultimate dyno number chase. I have been lurking and watching the work being done and it is truly incredible. With the real world testing and refinement, along with karter16 disassembling the CSL 401 bin, I think the community is in a fantastic place to finally have a proper calibration on the stock DME for the CSL airbox with stock cams.

Epic should only be Alpha N for a carbon airbox. I have yet to read a complaint about a stumble or drivability issue. The biggest complaint is that you are beholden to the tuner since the tune is locked. It is also the priciest option, but there are a lot of race cars that have been running his Alpha N tune for years with no issues. You just have to have the budget and make it easy for him to do the tune.

Kassel is one I have seen many bad things about. If you were local I might consider them, but otherwise I would stay away.

HTE has largely happy users along with good pricing and support. This is probably the most common option and definitely the best value for the money. That said, there have been issues with stumbles from friends of mine and the process of getting those sorted out. I am sure they will be resolved in time, but it was not a magical out of the box experience. I even saw one recently where the VANOS offset was incorrect for US cams and I sent him a revised flash trackside. He was getting vanos codes.

In my opinion, if you want an OE style tune, based on what I am seeing and what others are experiencing, the enthusiast community has developed the best option for a MAP sensor based tune with excellent OE like drivability and safety. The mullet tune looks to be the way to go.

If you are racing or heavily tracking, Epic makes the most sense, especially if your car needs to hit a specific power number for classing.

HTE remains the best value option considering power. You can work with him to do whatever you want and the tune is not locked, so there is transparency. You can get a safe dyno tune and then refine street manners afterward using the many DIY methods that have been posted in detail here about if you have the time.

[EthanolTurbo]

I guess I'm one of the few that's driven cars with them all.

Kassel: crap, basic tune. Better off loading an OEM CSL tune or something.

HTE: good tune, good drivability, good power

Mullet tune: amazing low end and smoothness (went up a hill in 3rd gear at 1500 RPM with no bogging in an E46 wagon with 2 people in it), feels truly OEM, less power than HTE but smoother. The most balanced tune.

[tnord]

You can still buy the Dinan and Conforti tunes from 20+ years ago, and they're still crap.

I guess, but I don't think anyone is considering them as still being "active" tuners for the engine today. Epic may not do much on the street car side, but they're still involved with race car stuff aren't they?

[George Hill]

...less power than HTE but smoother.

Has anyone actually run a Mullet tune on a dyno? How are you verifying it has less power than an HTE tune?

[Tbonem3]

Has anyone actually run a Mullet tune on a dyno? How are you verifying it has less power than an HTE tune?

Well without a dyno or wideband monitoring, how can Bryson fine tune things for each car?

[OldRanger]

Epic may not do much on the street car side, but they're still involved with race car stuff aren't they?

I’ve got two Epic tunes (one with stock airbox, one with CSL and Alpha N, both with headers). The tune with the CSL Box had a dyno session.

Driveability enhanced, power enhanced.

I believe his product line continues to grow. He’s keeping his software up to snuff.

[heinzboehmer]

I've also driven all the options listed above (+ a PCS tune). All except the HTE tune have run on my own car.

Mullet blows everything else out of the water. It's simply a way more comprehensive tune. It touches a lot of tables in the DME, as opposed to the other tunes that mess with WOT fueling, a bit of VANOS, then call it good.

I've been wanting to dyno my car with the Mullet, but have had trouble getting ahold of the guy who runs the local dyno. Have a bunch of runs from all the engine mod iterations that my car has gone through on that same dyno, so would be awesome to add the latest Mullet iteration to that list. I'll keep trying.

I doubt it's making less power though, especially cause none of the other tuners have actually changed the WOT interpolation targets to align with the different resonances that come from not running CSL cams/headers.

Well without a dyno or wideband monitoring, how can Bryson fine tune things for each car?

Same idea as the stock tunes from BMW. If you start with a known quantity (same HW mods, healthy engine), there is one optimal point that will be optimal for everything. Of course, there are going to be small differences between cars (due to manufacturing tolerances, wear, lack of maintenance, shitty aftermarket QC, etc.), but testing and developing on multiple cars will get to you a spot that's optimal for the majority of them.

Mullet iterations are based on logs from multiple cars with widebands in the same spot.

[EthanolTurbo]

Has anyone actually run a Mullet tune on a dyno? How are you verifying it has less power than an HTE tune?

Just the butt dyno. Bry5on even told me the tune doesn't focus on outright power, just optimization and drivability. Whenever he's ready he can take it to EAS and I could dyno mine as well and we can overlay the graphs, HTE vs Mullet.

[BMWfanz]

Mullet tune is only AFR calibration, actually as i understand- there is no ignition changes and vanos mapping. It is not about perfomance- it is about drivability