Review: Cobra Nogaro seats (uniquely street friendly fixed back bucket seat)

[heinzboehmer]

More comments on belts. Again, this is not specific to these seats.

The Pro version (red one) has a cam lock with an opening on the bottom to accept a substrap. You can also see how the shoulder straps come in a bit closer to the cam lock to properly hold a HANS.

The regular version (blue one), has a regular male to female buckle mechanism and can not accept a substrap. You can also see how the shoulder straps get farther apart the closer to the buckle you get, that will not properly secure a HANS.

In my OPINION, I would not run these (or any regular 4pt) on the street/canyons, unless it is a Pro version (or other belt with substrap to help keep the lap belt down) with a substrap. The issue is not the submarining, because you won't with either of these belts due to built in ASM (anti submarine) mechanism, but more of how to keep the lap belts down across your hips/pelvic bones in a case of an accident. As mentioned previously, lap belt portion rides up onto the stomach when you put forward pressure on the shoulder straps and your internals are not made to take the force.

See on a regular 3pt, when the top of the shoulder strap locks, there is a sliding mechanism by the buckle so that when forward pressure is applied, it actually tightens the lap belt to keep it properly across the pelvis (since the belt is all one continuous "string" vs in 4 points there are individual segments that secure to the cam lock/buckle).

I'm not sure why a similar sliding mechanism is not adapted for left lap/shoulder belt attachment and right lap/shoulder belt attachment, so that it forces to tighten the lap portion when forward pressure is applied at shoulders. It would need some sort of upper limiter so that the cam lock/buckle doesn't ride up to your throat, but I won't solve that problem here, I'm sure smart people have considered it and how it would make the body flail around and shift when one of the ends has less tension. But in either case, the current 4pt designs are probably not that great on the street, even though the company who sells them (in business of selling products) says they are. Again, personal opinion here. I know there have been plenty of debates on 4pt harnesses vs stock 3pt for street use.

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I would never run a 4 point harness on the street. I see no safety benefits over a regular 3 point seatbelt (especially on a car with airbags) and —in my mind— you're only introducing extra variables to the equation that you can get wrong (not tight enough, lap belt rode up, etc.). If you're driving fast enough to need a harness to keep you in place, you're probably not driving safely anyway. Save that for the track.

Plus, I find that wearing a harness correctly (i.e. tightly across the lap and shoulder belts tight enough for the HANS) is extremely uncomfortable unless you're actually going fast and being pressed into the seat. I usually end up switching to my harness a couple minutes before going on track because even cruising around in the paddock with the harness on is not fun. For it to be comfortable, it needs to be way too loose, which is a great way to crush your internal organs in a crash (like you've mentioned before)

[mrgizmo04]

More comments on belts. Again, this is not specific to these seats.

The Pro version (red one) has a cam lock with an opening on the bottom to accept a substrap. You can also see how the shoulder straps come in a bit closer to the cam lock to properly hold a HANS.

The regular version (blue one), has a regular male to female buckle mechanism and can not accept a substrap. You can also see how the shoulder straps get farther apart the closer to the buckle you get, that will not properly secure a HANS.

In my OPINION, I would not run these (or any regular 4pt) on the street/canyons, unless it is a Pro version (or other belt with substrap to help keep the lap belt down) with a substrap. The issue is not the submarining, because you won't with either of these belts due to built in ASM (anti submarine) mechanism, but more of how to keep the lap belts down across your hips/pelvic bones in a case of an accident. As mentioned previously, lap belt portion rides up onto the stomach when you put forward pressure on the shoulder straps and your internals are not made to take the force.

See on a regular 3pt, when the top of the shoulder strap locks, there is a sliding mechanism by the buckle so that when forward pressure is applied, it actually tightens the lap belt to keep it properly across the pelvis (since the belt is all one continuous "string" vs in 4 points there are individual segments that secure to the cam lock/buckle).

I'm not sure why a similar sliding mechanism is not adapted for left lap/shoulder belt attachment and right lap/shoulder belt attachment, so that it forces to tighten the lap portion when forward pressure is applied at shoulders. It would need some sort of upper limiter so that the cam lock/buckle doesn't ride up to your throat, but I won't solve that problem here, I'm sure smart people have considered it and how it would make the body flail around and shift when one of the ends has less tension. But in either case, the current 4pt designs are probably not that great on the street, even though the company who sells them (in business of selling products) says they are. Again, personal opinion here. I know there have been plenty of debates on 4pt harnesses vs stock 3pt for street use.

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[Casa de Mesa]

That's assuming you like how upright and unpadded they are on your drives .

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I have a good bit of experience with race buckets and my driving position with any factory seat is probably a lot more upright than most. I think I'll dig these!

But valid point/assumption.

Edit: I just reread this thread a little farther back. I see what you did here now

[mrgizmo04]

Can't wait to get some proper seats in the car!

That's assuming you like how upright and unpadded they are on your drives .

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[Casa de Mesa]

+1. You're gonna spend 2-3x as much if you want to get just the sliders shipped to you.

At that price I'd probably plan a weekend trip and go grab those seats

Besides who doesn't like a good road trip?

[heinzboehmer]

From what I've seen, they are not super easy to find (the rails) unless your full time job is scouting junk yard sites. Plus you can use wiring and other elements off of them, so prob worth a drive.

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+1. You're gonna spend 2-3x as much if you want to get just the sliders shipped to you.

At that price I'd probably plan a weekend trip and go grab those seats

[Casa de Mesa]

Hey Cubieman I'm following your posts and looking to do essentially the same setup as you. Just pulled the trigger on the Nogaros last night. I sourced some E46 power seats bases months ago in anticipation of this mod, but second guessing the power bases for at least the passenger side, maybe the driver side too (that is, thinking about going manual sliders in both).

Can't wait to get some proper seats in the car!

[mrgizmo04]

I have found a set of manual/heated seats from an E46 Sedan for $100 a few hours away and wondered if it is worth my time to drive 2 hours and load 2 full seats or just find someone who can ship just the rails and not have to drive a 4 hour trip.

I was hoping that I could use the wiring harness's from the non-M seats as well as the seat heats and maybe even get myself a functional occupancy sensor.

My goal is to not modify my wiring in any way shape or form, I am willing to have an upholstery shop sew in both seat heats as to keep it more factory.

Can I use anything from the non-M seats beyond the rails?

From what I've seen, they are not super easy to find (the rails) unless your full time job is scouting junk yard sites. Plus you can use wiring and other elements off of them, so prob worth a drive.

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[Cubieman]

I have found a set of manual/heated seats from an E46 Sedan for $100 a few hours away and wondered if it is worth my time to drive 2 hours and load 2 full seats or just find someone who can ship just the rails and not have to drive a 4 hour trip.

I was hoping that I could use the wiring harness's from the non-M seats as well as the seat heats and maybe even get myself a functional occupancy sensor.

My goal is to not modify my wiring in any way shape or form, I am willing to have an upholstery shop sew in both seat heats as to keep it more factory.

Can I use anything from the non-M seats beyond the rails?

[Cubieman]

for the occupant sensor is the latter, but not sure you want to crash more than once, or even once for that matter... 😂

Lol, re-reading that last bit.

[maupineda]

for the occupant sensor is the latter, but not sure you want to crash more than once, or even once for that matter... 😂

[Cubieman]

Are E39 seat heats a good option? I've watched a video where a guy takes a single E39 seat heat and kind of gets it halfway under the bottom cushion and halfway under the back cushion, looks OK I guess.

I'd love to have 2 separate seat heats per factory but dont really see how one could have 1 seat heat under the bottom cushion and 1 seat heat in the back postion and still allow enough velcro contact to make the cushions stick to the seat. Seems to do this correctly cushions must be cut open.

Second thing is BMWs are rare in junkyards around my town. I'll most definitely be looking for manual sliders but if I can't find anything I'll use my OEM power sliders I will not be doing anything I can't reverse by simply removing the sliders correct?

My big thing is always non-destructive modifications, for example I'll need to source seat wiring harnesses, as I don't want to hack up my original harness.
for seat heats and/or E30 switch.

Third thing, how is the occupancy sensor dealt with? Can it be made to have full functionality or are we just tricking it so the passenger airbag is going off everytime?

Thanks.

[mrgizmo04]

On removing the seat, I would've imagined the bolts against the trans tunnel would be difficult to get to.

You would unbolt the slider from the floor (essentially removing the entire seat+mount+slider), not the seat from the side mount.


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[mrgizmo04]

For longer drives and general comfort, the lumbar cushion (link below) helps. You can also stuff a small pillow from your couch/bed there, noone will judge you.

https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/item/cobra-nogaro-lumbar-cushion

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[Cubieman]

275s, awesome. Sounds like my 255s would probably slot in then.

On removing the seat, I would've imagined the bolts against the trans tunnel would be difficult to get to.

Anyone in NJ/MD/VA area have these in their car? I sat in them at HMS, but I'm having a hard time imagining how they feel *in* an E46. My main concern is long-trip comfort as I still drive the car up to 7 hours at a time.

Not direct comparison but I have done multiple 4hr trips in a 996 GT3 with stock seats and Nogaros, the Nogaros are definitely not nearly as comfortable imo and the fact you cannot recline a bit will make those long roads trips a bit harder, at least for me. Not to mention you lose a fair amount of padding, you feel more bumps in the road etc.

For short trips, and in town drives you will very likely find they are not as comfortable as the stock M3 seats, but I think this is a given. With longer trips you may find you want some extra cushioning near the small of your back.

In the Porsche I put the Nogaros in the more reclined of the two available positions and it made a world of difference for ME in regards to comfort all around.

I would suggest getting the lumber bags as well, they can go in after the fact.