Intermittent no start, no click/crank

[Cubieman]

Having starting issues lately, when the problem occurs the vehicle simply doesn't do anything when I try to start it.

The starter is not cranking, the starter is not clicking, nothing is happening.

Battery voltage w/ car off= 12.7V
Battery voltage w/ car on= 14.1V

The outside air temps and humidity have been brutal here lately.

To my knowledge this car has the original starter and the car has 65K on it.

What should I try and troubleshoot before I start throwing parts at it?
If I end up needing a new starter is non-OE acceptable in this instance? Man those OE starters are pricey.
I have a CSL airbox but even with it split in half access to the starter looks looks as if I need to remove the entire intake, not too bad I guess.

I just would like to know with the vehicle not cranking what the potential issues could be and what if any testing I could perform to narrow down the source of the problem.
Thanks guys.

[eacmen]

Having starting issues lately, when the problem occurs the vehicle simply doesn't do anything when I try to start it.

The starter is not cranking, the starter is not clicking, nothing is happening.

Battery voltage w/ car off= 12.7V
Battery voltage w/ car on= 14.1V

The outside air temps and humidity have been brutal here lately.

To my knowledge this car has the original starter and the car has 65K on it.

What should I try and troubleshoot before I start throwing parts at it?
If I end up needing a new starter is non-OE acceptable in this instance? Man those OE starters are pricey.
I have a CSL airbox but even with it split in half access to the starter looks looks as if I need to remove the entire intake, not too bad I guess.

I just would like to know with the vehicle not cranking what the potential issues could be and what if any testing I could perform to narrow down the source of the problem.
Thanks guys.

You're sure battery is good? Have you measured the voltage while you try and crank it?


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[Cubieman]

You're sure battery is good? Have you measured the voltage while you try and crank it?


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I have not measured while trying to crank it.

But I would think if it was a low voltage battery the car simply would not start at all until the battery had proper voltage.

For example last night the car fired right up out of the garge, I drove it around for about 30 min, shut it off, it fired right back up.

I then drove it around for about a solid hour and shut it off for about 15 minutes. When I went to start the car I had to try over 5 times to start it, nothing whatsoever is happening when I turn the key. I thought to myself that I was screwed then attempted to start it again and it worked.

[eacmen]

I have not measured while trying to crank it.

I've seen batteries that measured good unloaded voltage, but are still bad. So they only way to really see if a battery is good is to measure voltage while you crank, if it drops below 9v the battery is bad and should be replaced.

You can also bring it to any parts store and they will test it.

You can also get a relatively cheap tester like this:

OTC 3180 100 Amp Battery Load Tester https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F5HU6C..._kfChFbQ7K9GBF

Good reference:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a2074/4221215/

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[Cubieman]

I will do this test today and report the results.

But if they battery is potentially bad (low voltage) wouldn't the car not start at all? Like for example yesterday afternoon at the grocery store, first two attempts to start, nothing, third attempt fired up. I would have thought low voltage would simply have prevented the car from starting period.

[eacmen]

I will do this test today and report the results.

But if they battery is potentially bad (low voltage) wouldn't the car not start at all? Like for example yesterday afternoon at the grocery store, first two attempts to start, nothing, third attempt fired up. I would have thought low voltage would simply have prevented the car from starting period.

You're right. I re-read your post again. I thought you said it was clicking but no crank. Which is classic sign of bad battery.

Apologies.


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[PipeUy]

The exact same thing happens to my E46 and I have a brand new battery so that probably could rule out that hypothesis.

[Cubieman]

Starter...???

And if yes: is a non-OE like a Valeo fine?

[eacmen]

Starter...???

Could be. Could also be immobilizer or ignition switch. If you have a spare key might want to try using that to see if the problem persists. Double check your grounds too.

[Cubieman]

Unfortunately I do not have a spare key, also I don't know if this makes any difference but my DME has EWS deleted.

With EWS deleted a new igniton switch would be plug and play correct? No need to have it coded to my key? Forgive my ignorance if that is not how things work.

I figure if my battery is good I could throw a Valeo starter and possibly ignition switch on an order and....throw parts at it.

[heinzboehmer]

This happened to me a while back. First tried cleaning all the starter cable contact points (in the drug bin, on the post where you jump the car, and at the starter). Worked for a bit, but then the issue came back.

Also tried bypassing the clutch switch, but that didn't make a difference. Easy way to tell if it's bad is to sit in the car with the engine off and key in position two and press the pedal a bunch of times. You should hear a relay click near the end of the pedal's travel.

Finally replaced my starter and it hasn't happened since. The Valeo part is totally fine. And you should definitely remove the entire intake for the job.

[eacmen]

Unfortunately I do not have a spare key, also I don't know if this makes any difference but my DME has EWS deleted.

With EWS deleted a new igniton switch would be plug and play correct? No need to have it coded to my key? Forgive my ignorance if that is not how things work.

I figure if my battery is good I could throw a Valeo starter and possibly ignition switch on an order and....throw parts at it.

IIRC the EWS still functions as normal for the starter motor, just the EWS protections on the DME side are disabled. Allowing you to swap DMEs into any car.

Maybe someone more experienced with EWS can chime in. But I remember there was some wiring required to totally delete EWS from a vehicle.


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[Cubieman]

So if I installed a new ignition switch would it need to be "synced" to my key fob in order for the car to start?

[Cubieman]

This happened to me a while back. First tried cleaning all the starter cable contact points (in the drug bin, on the post where you jump the car, and at the starter). Worked for a bit, but then the issue came back.

Also tried bypassing the clutch switch, but that didn't make a difference. Easy way to tell if it's bad is to sit in the car with the engine off and key in position two and press the pedal a bunch of times. You should hear a relay click near the end of the pedal's travel.

Finally replaced my starter and it hasn't happened since. The Valeo part is totally fine. And you should definitely remove the entire intake for the job.

I can hear the relay click when the clutch pedal is depressed. The clutch stop was maybe borderline interfering with that.

Another observation I made was I hear a "electrical whirring" noise around the fuel rail area with key in position 2 with I have to assume is the fuel priming.

This noise is not continuous, it sounds like its going in cycles and some of the cycles don't sound to be rhythmic, kind of all over the place at points.

But if it was a fueling issue wouldn't the engine still at least turn over?

[heinzboehmer]

I can hear the relay click when the clutch pedal is depressed. The clutch stop was maybe borderline interfering with that.

Another observation I made was I hear a "electrical whirring" noise around the fuel rail area with key in position 2 with I have to assume is the fuel priming.

This noise is not continuous, it sounds like its going in cycles and some of the cycles don't sound to be rhythmic, kind of all over the place at points.

But if it was a fueling issue wouldn't the engine still at least turn over?

Ah you have a clutch stop. Make sure it's properly adjusted and allows the pedal to be fully depressed.

But yeah, my experience was exactly the same as yours. Ended up being the starter. If you don't want to buy a new one just to try then I suggest cleaning all the contact points with electrical contact cleaner. Might just be a bad connection somewhere.

And yes your issue sounds 100% electrical. The starter would at least try to turn the engine if the issue was something else.