Bimmerpost swooping in

[Radekxpl]

True that. My E46 is actually fun to work on. Sadly, I believe it is the last generation of BMW's to be truly wrenchable. I also have an E90, and I just bought an F15 both are computer dependent, but the F15 is so sensitive and computer dependent that you can lose adaptation just unhooking the battery! Don't even think about working on these cars unless you have a copy of ISTA+ on hand. Watching these guys trying to debug their vehicles (F15, Bimmerpost) without software is hilarious. They get all kinds of crazy errors and have no idea of what is going on under the sheets.

Totally true, have F15 diesel as well, the only advantage on the F platform is the ISTA+ its so much better fast smooth easy to install process on how it provides info/possible resolutions is streamlined much better light years ahead of INPA and DIS, when using INPA I feel like im in middle ages, hehe, it also works on E46 as well though.

[kaiv]

I certainly agree that's part of it. But, I also don't think it's necessarily going to get there. I sold our e9X primarily because I couldn't stand working not it, and I generally like DIYing things. Every single part of the car felt like it wasn't designed to be worked on/serviced... and the F8X is even worse.

By contrast, the e46 comes apart like Legos

I too prefer the E46 but I don't find E9x to be a pain to work on. Just a little different. Is it possible you feel that way because you're just so used to the E46?

[kaiv]

They delete any mentions of competing forums, and then their names are censored from any URLs. If you've ever seen a link look like "http://www.****************.com/" on their forums, that's what happened. Same case with former vendors. Bimmerpost is the devil.

Bimmerpost sucks donkey balls. A bunch of idiots that don't work on their own cars and ask absolutely inane questions....

It’s not the banner ads that are the issue— it’s the censoring/deleting content to protect the sponsors, undermining actual meaningful discussion that’s the issue.

All of this. Bimmerpost is a cancer to the enthusiast community.

[Obioban]

I too prefer the E46 but I don't find E9x to be a pain to work on. Just a little different. Is it possible you feel that way because you're just so used to the E46?

I don't mind working on the e39, and it's also different :P

I think the processes are just worst on the e9X. E.g. replacing the rear main seal. On the e46 it's undo 6 bolts, swap part, redo 6 bolts. On the e9X it's use special puller tool to remove, use alternate special tool to install, use 3 stage sealing agent.

Or, diff fluid. First drill a hole in your differential cover, tap it, and add a drain hole. Then drain.

Or, checking your oil level... impossible when the engine is cold. If you don't know how much oil is in the engine, and don't want to risk a startup without knowing, your only option is draining it.

Or, battery swaps— computer now required.

Or, pulling the valve cover on the s54 takes ~20 minutes. Doing the same job on the N52 takes me ~4 hours... with a not insignificant chance of the valve cover cracking in the process, because it's plastic made brittle by heat.

Or, think of how many bushings/bearings/ball joints are in the e9X suspension.

Or, aftermarket wheels are always inherently unbalanced because of the need for TPMS sensors (who's batteries eventually die)

Or, try to imagine doing a stereo project like I did in my M3 (removed everything and replaced with aftermarket to save 50+ lbs without losing any functionality) on an e9X.

etc, etc etc

[kaiv]

I don't mind working on the e39, and it's also different :P

I think the processes are just worst on the e9X. E.g. replacing the rear main seal. On the e46 it's undo 6 bolts, swap part, redo 6 bolts. On the e9X it's use special puller tool to remove, use alternate special tool to install, use 3 stage sealing agent.

Or, diff fluid. First drill a hole in your differential cover, tap it, and add a drain hole. Then drain.

Or, checking your oil level... impossible when the engine is cold. If you don't know how much oil is in the engine, and don't want to risk a startup without knowing, your only option is draining it.

Or, battery swaps.

etc, etc etc

That's fair, those are all a pain in the ass indeed lol

I was thinking MT clutches, dropping the rear end, S65 rod bearings (...) Those are no more difficult than on the E46.

[rbg]

I don't mind working on the e39, and it's also different :P

I think the processes are just worst on the e9X. E.g. replacing the rear main seal. On the e46 it's undo 6 bolts, swap part, redo 6 bolts. On the e9X it's use special puller tool to remove, use alternate special tool to install, use 3 stage sealing agent.

Or, diff fluid. First drill a hole in your differential cover, tap it, and add a drain hole. Then drain.

Or, checking your oil level... impossible when the engine is cold. If you don't know how much oil is in the engine, and don't want to risk a startup without knowing, your only option is draining it.

Or, battery swaps— computer now required.

Or, pulling the valve cover on the s54 takes ~20 minutes. Doing the same job on the N52 takes me ~4 hours... with a not insignificant chance of the valve cover cracking in the process, because it's plastic made brittle by heat.

Or, think of how many bushings/bearings/ball joints are in the e9X suspension.

Or, aftermarket wheels are always inherently unbalanced because of the need for TPMS sensors (who's batteries eventually die)

Or, try to imagine doing a stereo project like I did in my M3 (removed everything and replaced with aftermarket to save 50+ lbs without losing any functionality) on an e9X.

etc, etc etc

Sooo great we have a new forum and can argue all over again! lol
I disagree (partly of course). Some things are pain, but some are ok. I think suspension is way easier to work on e90 like for real. Change arms one by one, no wishbone ball joints, FCAB and RTABS... Oh and our structural front plate with all those one time use bolts :-)
Intake and VCG is a pain and on general engine bay is more crowded (especially now with N54 in there). Regarding stereo, if you have a basic option I think you might be fine. Actually some interior clips and trim hardware are improved by bmw and I do not brake them all the time :-) I hate no drain plugs in some diffs and no dipstick for oil extraction thats for sure.


Hey, but my friend has e36 and Z3 and he says my e46 is a pain and so computerized :-)

[IamFODI]

Obioban, didn't we talk briefly about this and conclude there's a difference in both ease and necessity of maintenance/repairs between E9x M and non-M?

Differences on the M vs. what you described: No risk of cracking the valve covers (magnesium), and the diff has a drain hole. I also get the impression that aside from throttle actuators and rod bearings, stuff just breaks less on the M vs. on the non-M. And even TA and RB failures aren't as likely as the Internet makes them seem.

Balancing a wheel with TPMS is trivial, no?

Other perks of E9x M vs. E46 M:
- Coolant bleeding is as simple as turning the car on and topping off
- No valve adjustments
- VANOS not a wear item
- Cooling system not a wear item
- Trunk floor not a wear item

[rbg]

- Trunk floor not a wear item

No way?! 🤣

[IamFODI]

No way?! 🤣

🤣

To be fair though, VCs do take much longer than 20 mins, battery replacement does require a computer, and not having a dipstick is annoying at oil change time. Also, many jobs require removing the intake plenum, which is extra annoying because the clamps and connectors are all under the damn thing. No way around those annoyances.

[Obioban]

Obioban, didn't we talk briefly about this and conclude there's a difference in both ease and necessity of maintenance/repairs between E9x M and non-M?

Differences on the M vs. what you described: No risk of cracking the valve covers (magnesium), and the diff has a drain hole. I also get the impression that aside from throttle actuators and rod bearings, stuff just breaks less on the M vs. on the non-M. And even TA and RB failures aren't as likely as the Internet makes them seem.

Balancing a wheel with TPMS is trivial, no?

Other perks of E9x M vs. E46 M:
- Coolant bleeding is as simple as turning the car on and topping off
- No valve adjustments
- VANOS not a wear item
- Cooling system not a wear item
- Trunk floor not a wear item

I don’t know of any car by any brand where the cooling system isn’t a wear item— the question is how long the interval is.

Similarly, vanos (seals) almost certainly will be a wear item as the cars age— just not a failure item.

e46M also has the self bleeding cooling system, unlike e46 non M (or e36m).

e9X non M coolant bleeding is actually better than either. Don’t turn car on and electronic pump circulates coolant. That was the only job I ever preferred doing on our e91 to other cars.

Take a look at any e9x with aftermarket wheels, opposite the valve stem— huge stack of weights.

But, yes— the e9x M3 is certainly more built for serviceability than the non M e9Xs. Things like a drain plug really help

[chicane]

Obioban, didn't we talk briefly about this and conclude there's a difference in both ease and necessity of maintenance/repairs between E9x M and non-M?


- Trunk floor not a wear item

What?

[Obioban]

What?

it's a subframe failure joke.

[Sharocks]

Here to say Bimmerpost is garbage. Bunch of BMW fanboys that have never seen BMW in their glory days.

"mUh M4 mAkEz dUh fArTz"

- Typical Bimmerpost S55 nut hugger

[r4dr]

It still blows my mind that our E91 and E92 non-M both don't have a drain plug on the differential. I've never heard of tapping your own – I just used a suction setup to get it out and then reversed it to fill it back up – but I guess it aligns with BMW's insanity regarding "lifetime" fluids.

Of course, an E46 M3 is practically space age complexity compared to my S52-swapped E30 track car. So it's all relative.

Here to say Bimmerpost is garbage. Bunch of BMW fanboys that have never seen BMW in their glory days.

"mUh M4 mAkEz dUh fArTz"

- Typical Bimmerpost S55 nut hugger

My favorite part is how triggered S55 owners get when you tell them their car inherently sounds like shit.

[chicane]

Not to mention the mods will FREQUENTLY come in and delete posts and even entire threads for no apparent reason what so ever, no debates, no fiery language, just some poor bloke who has issues with his ride, next thing you know thread gone.