M3 E46 to M3 F80 - feedback?

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Isn't that only the case if you mod it?

No stock ones too. It's the equivalent of our Vanos issues. There's no rhyme or reason why it fails.

[r4dr]

No stock ones too. It's the equivalent of our Vanos issues. There's no rhyme or reason why it fails.

That’s good to know, I have a few friends who track them hard. At least there’s a fix, from what I remember.

[cozmo kraemer]

I have a 2016 340i MSport with the track package, it is a great daily driver. Can't really ask for anything more. It is plenty fast (BMW WAAAAY underrated the B58), gets great gas mileage when you want to, is very comfortable, has tons of space, and I have a warranty until 2024 with unlimited mileage. I also really like the driving dynamics of it, which is contrary to a lot of folks on here. It is NOT an e46m, from a dynamics perspective, but it also makes so many things about getting around easier. There are trade offs both ways, and I personally really enjoy the 340. I think the F80M might actually sacrifice a lot of what makes the 340 so good, and not offer much in return. I really wish they would have put the S58 in the body style of the F80. I think that could have been a special car. The b/s58 series of engines is pretty special...

[herwawan]

Well, I just test drove the Giulia Quadrifoglio.

Hard to know where to start but it is one hell of a car. The steering is SO good. Vast difference with the F80 just on that alone. For some reason the twitchy braking doesn’t bother me, got the hang of it right away and I kind of like it.

The carbon seats hold you perfectly and the wheel size is perfect. Suspension is firm when in higher mode but soft makes it very livable. Did I mention the steering? Holly molly the steering is amazing.

The build quality though, definitely far from the M3. Looking under the hood, I saw some tape here and there, wondering if it was a cheap fix. No, checking the official pictures it’s there too 😂 inside it’s not bad, but it’s really not great either. The gear lever looks and feel so cheap. The main screen isn’t bad and is CarPlay compatible so there’s that.

The paint quality is not the best either, especially on the carbon roof. It’s just very Italian I guess, and unlike German. The dealer say they would detail it but one of their cleaning guy already did work on it and the glossy red doesn’t look like it can get much better than that.

But that steering though. The global feeling of driving, it’s really engaging, and it’s a small package really!

Man. What a car.

I guess in a few words, it made me feel something driving it. The F80 didn’t really and I couldn’t see myself leaving the E46 behind after test driving it. After the Alfa, I kind of do.

Regarding all of the comments above, I can only say yes to all of them. I had a E34 for a very long time that I rebuilt and I loved the heck out of it but the steering box eventually develops a dead spot and there’s nothing you can do about it (proper fix a mean). Miss that car everyday. E39, yes and yes. Amazing saloon but just too big and plain looking for the fun that I’m looking at. E46, well I already have one so I’d rather see a change! And the M340 I indeed read a lot of positive things about it, but I’m really looking for my swan song of a internal combustion engine. I know that after that last one, I’ll go full electric. The B58 is a phenomenal engine, I just want sometime more special.

[bmw]

I was unclear on what price range we are talking about here, but assuming we are talking a used mid-mileage F80 M3, that looks like 50K for a decent example, right?

Assuming we are talking about DDs and not weekend cars or garage queens, around this price range:

• Macan Turbo w/ Cobb Accessport V3 (supposedly 472hp/580 lb/ft torque) is a sublimely nice package for a daily driver. I am biased here, this is my current DD.
• E63 AMG
• Audi S6 (or go older and low mileage for the special engine, V10 S8)
• Panamera GTS
• CTS-V

Despite it's other significant shortcomings, I can't get beyond the Quadrifoglio's looks.

F80 is the low point in recent M car history, it's gets the double whammy of being the post-recession cost cutting special and the product of BMW's mismanagement and abandonment of the company's focus on the driving experience and therefore suffers in every category vs. the competition.

[r4dr]

I can't comment on the driving experience since I have none, but those MB AMG wagons have always seemed special to me. Great DD.

[Paul M3]

F80 is about as exciting as watching paint dry compared to an e46

[repoman89]

e39 530i MT is the best DD ever made at any price point, IMO.

Quick enough to be enjoyable.
Large enough to fit 5 large adult in comfort (still smaller than an F80 on the outside)
<3500 lbs
R&P hydraulic steering
reliable
reasonably efficient
full size spare tire
clear and useful gauges
fun on a backroad
comfortable on a highway
easy to work on
none of the time bomb tech in modern cars that'll make them a disaster after 100,000 miles (direct injection, turbos, bla bla bla)
nice interior with high quality materials
none of the modern drive the car for you crap detracting from the experience
excellent visibility
reasonably modern safety

I would be seriously tempted to trade my M5 for a clean, rust free 530i + some cash, even an auto for a manual swap. They are a lot harder to find than clean and trustworthy 540i/M5s though. Really love the M5 for a DD as well, but I'd probably also love $20-25k in my pocket and ~halved fuel and maintenance costs Oh well, the S62 is badass and the interior is quite a bit nicer (IMO).

[Hyperboost]

No stock ones too. It's the equivalent of our Vanos issues. There's no rhyme or reason why it fails.

It is a shame that all M cars all have a fatal flaw that require owners to spend money on preventative stuff...... 🙄
Doesn't matter which chassis. If you think about it, it's sad.

[bigjae46]

I’d DD a 440 grand coupe. It’s got a B engine so probably not as many oil leaks. Lower insurance costs, rides much softer and it has everything you need for the street.


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[heinzboehmer]

That’s good to know, I have a few friends who track them hard. At least there’s a fix, from what I remember.

Unfortunately the fix is pretty labor intensive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73W46XhFafQ

[liam821]

Well, I just test drove the Giulia Quadrifoglio.

Hard to know where to start but it is one hell of a car. The steering is SO good. Vast difference with the F80 just on that alone. For some reason the twitchy braking doesn’t bother me, got the hang of it right away and I kind of like it.

The carbon seats hold you perfectly and the wheel size is perfect. Suspension is firm when in higher mode but soft makes it very livable. Did I mention the steering? Holly molly the steering is amazing.

The build quality though, definitely far from the M3. Looking under the hood, I saw some tape here and there, wondering if it was a cheap fix. No, checking the official pictures it’s there too 😂 inside it’s not bad, but it’s really not great either. The gear lever looks and feel so cheap. The main screen isn’t bad and is CarPlay compatible so there’s that.

The paint quality is not the best either, especially on the carbon roof. It’s just very Italian I guess, and unlike German. The dealer say they would detail it but one of their cleaning guy already did work on it and the glossy red doesn’t look like it can get much better than that.

But that steering though. The global feeling of driving, it’s really engaging, and it’s a small package really!

Man. What a car.

I guess in a few words, it made me feel something driving it. The F80 didn’t really and I couldn’t see myself leaving the E46 behind after test driving it. After the Alfa, I kind of do.

Regarding all of the comments above, I can only say yes to all of them. I had a E34 for a very long time that I rebuilt and I loved the heck out of it but the steering box eventually develops a dead spot and there’s nothing you can do about it (proper fix a mean). Miss that car everyday. E39, yes and yes. Amazing saloon but just too big and plain looking for the fun that I’m looking at. E46, well I already have one so I’d rather see a change! And the M340 I indeed read a lot of positive things about it, but I’m really looking for my swan song of a internal combustion engine. I know that after that last one, I’ll go full electric. The B58 is a phenomenal engine, I just want sometime more special.

Thanks for your review. Your statements align with all the reviews I've watched/read. Just to throw it out there, have you driven an Audi RS3? It's about the same size car as the e46, but four doors, great seats and interior, great infotainment system and digital dash. Extremely exciting 5cyl engine - and they run 10s with just a tune. I love the magride suspension (used to own an s3 which has the same suspension). The steering is a bit Audi'ish and electric, but bad, not great. It's still a special car with a very special engine. Did I mention it has a 5cyl?

[r4dr]

The rear seats in the A3 are pretty useless. I'm under 6' and I remember being squeezed in there. I'd consider that a 2-seater for all intents and purposes, lol.

[liam821]

The rear seats in the A3 are pretty useless. I'm under 6' and I remember being squeezed in there. I'd consider that a 2-seater for all intents and purposes, lol.

They're fine for kids - if that's what you're hauling. They're as big in the back as the e46. But yeah, to your point, the F80 is a much larger car.

[herwawan]

Alright! I just took delivery of a 2021 M340i and I couldn’t be happier!

After a lot of back and forth, I ended up letting go of the Giulia Quadrifoglio idea. It really doesn’t make sense financially with the atrocious Alfa’s leasing program and the questionable reliability. As for the M3 F80, as much as I like the idea and the look of the car, the driving experience didn’t convince me.

I tried the M340i last week and I was really surprised by it. It’s just a really good car, the steering is 10x better than the F80, the engine is plenty powerful and it’s super high-tech with all the cool features one can expect from the latest cars.

Thanks a lot everyone for helping me with this research 🤘