Need help diagnosing problem after vanos update

[sapote]

To recap, regardless of whether I put in my old vanos or old exhaust hub or new vanos and new exhaust hub I still get the same results. Every time I take it apart I get the timing perfect then rotate the crank several turns and recheck the timing. But then when I start it the exhaust cam is off significantly.s.

off significantly? Physically observed or testing data?

keep in mind that when engine turned off, the EX cam rested at max advanced as in the first 2 pics, so it’s normal that the pin cannot lineup to the cam hole.

[boadly]

Do you have the shafts fitted to the correct cams?

Yes, the shafts are in the correct cams

[boadly]

off significantly? Physically observed or testing data?

keep in mind that when engine turned off, the EX cam rested at max advanced as in the first 2 pics, so it’s normal that the pin cannot lineup to the cam hole.

Testing. I've previously posted the data from several tests.

[boadly]

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm going to switch out the crankshaft sensor tomorrow. If that doesn't work I guess I'll have to take it to a real mechanic.

[sapote]

I watched you posted video of the cam timing data; It sure looks like you have an electrical or sensor issue and not the VANOS timing setting problem. It's impossible for the EX cam timing to mechanically jump around from 19 to 9 in fraction of seconds. This also cannot be the solenoid control signal wires issue, so check the EX sensor connector pins which seems to be giving the DME unreliable signal. I don't think the crank sensor is bad, as the IN cam reading is perfectly fine which also used the crank sensor in the process to calculate the IN cam 57 deg retard.

Concentrate on the EX sensor signal wiring or sensor itself.
Another idea: move the EX cam to full retard -- turn CCW using 24mm -- and disconnect the solenoid electrical connector and this disable all hydraulic valves. Run engine at idle and look at the cam timing data to see if EX still bouncing around. If it jumps around then definitely this is signal issue and not mechanical movement.

[boadly]

I watched you posted video of the cam timing data; It sure looks like you have an electrical or sensor issue and not the VANOS timing setting problem. It's impossible for the EX cam timing to mechanically jump around from 19 to 9 in fraction of seconds. This also cannot be the solenoid control signal wires issue, so check the EX sensor connector pins which seems to be giving the DME unreliable signal. I don't think the crank sensor is bad, as the IN cam reading is perfectly fine which also used the crank sensor in the process to calculate the IN cam 57 deg retard.

Concentrate on the EX sensor signal wiring or sensor itself.
Another idea: move the EX cam to full retard -- turn CCW using 24mm -- and disconnect the solenoid electrical connector and this disable all hydraulic valves. Run engine at idle and look at the cam timing data to see if EX still bouncing around. If it jumps around then definitely this is signal issue and not mechanical movement.

Thanks sapote. Yeah, it seems to be an electrical issue. As previously mentioned, I tested the camshaft sensor by checking the voltage as I rotated the crank. It went from 5 volts to 0 volts which I understand is what it's supposed to do so I'm assuming the sensor is good. Guess it's possible I could have damaged the wiring to the cam sensor taking the valve cover off.

I put the old crankshaft sensor back in today but got the same results. I see what you're saying about the crank sensor working given the intake cam reading. However, I thought there might be something wrong with it as my Schwaben tool shows the misfire counter not active. And my understanding is that misfires are calculated from the crankshaft sensor data so I don't understand what's going on with that and whether it's related to my Vanos problem.

I'll do some more testing tomorrow but this is starting to get beyond my abilities so will likely have to take it to a mechanic.

[boadly]

I watched you posted video of the cam timing data; It sure looks like you have an electrical or sensor issue and not the VANOS timing setting problem. It's impossible for the EX cam timing to mechanically jump around from 19 to 9 in fraction of seconds. This also cannot be the solenoid control signal wires issue, so check the EX sensor connector pins which seems to be giving the DME unreliable signal. I don't think the crank sensor is bad, as the IN cam reading is perfectly fine which also used the crank sensor in the process to calculate the IN cam 57 deg retard.

Concentrate on the EX sensor signal wiring or sensor itself.
Another idea: move the EX cam to full retard -- turn CCW using 24mm -- and disconnect the solenoid electrical connector and this disable all hydraulic valves. Run engine at idle and look at the cam timing data to see if EX still bouncing around. If it jumps around then definitely this is signal issue and not mechanical movement.

So I tried your recommendation to disconnect the VANOS. I pinned the crank at TDC and then rotated the exhaust cam counter clockwise until I could get the pin in the timing tool. I then disconnected the electrical connector and started the car. The shared Google Photos link is a video using Testo. The exhaust cam shows to be fluctuating between about 70 degrees and 60 degrees. It jumped around like before but at a higher number. Don't know if the higher numbers are relevant to a diagnosis or just the fact it was fluctuating is all that matters. Not sure if the number would have gone down if I had kept it running but I shut it off as it was running very rough. With the Vanos plugged in previously the numbers would go down a little bit the longer it ran but it was never at 70 degrees. So is this definitive for a signal issue problem? If the camshaft sensor is good is it just a wiring issue or could it be something more complicated like the DME? Could the camshaft sensor still be bad even though the voltage changed from 5 volts to 0 volts as I rotated the crank? Don't know why this would matter but is it possible that reflashing the tune would do anything to solve this?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SPirRWJwAErAxyXD9

[sapote]

So I tried your recommendation to disconnect the VANOS. I pinned the crank at TDC and then rotated the exhaust cam counter clockwise until I could get the pin in the timing tool. I then disconnected the electrical connector and started the car. The shared Google Photos link is a video using Testo. The exhaust cam shows to be fluctuating between about 70 degrees and 60 degrees. It jumped around like before but at a higher number. Don't know if the higher numbers are relevant to a diagnosis or just the fact it was fluctuating is all that matters. Not sure if the number would have gone down if I had kept it running but I shut it off as it was running very rough. With the Vanos plugged in previously the numbers would go down a little bit the longer it ran but it was never at 70 degrees. So is this definitive for a signal issue problem? If the camshaft sensor is good is it just a wiring issue or could it be something more complicated like the DME? Could the camshaft sensor still be bad even though the voltage changed from 5 volts to 0 volts as I rotated the crank? Don't know why this would matter but is it possible that reflashing the tune would do anything to solve this?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SPirRWJwAErAxyXD9

So it still jumped around 10 degrees even with no hydraulic actuation to vary the cam; this means the jumping data is caused by EX cam sensor signal or wiring. It's interesting that it shown 70* retarded this time instead of -45* as spec'ed. When you had it set at full advanced (with the VANOS elec connector plugged) the EX cam was controlled to full advanced at 0* (but this displayed data was 19* instead), so there seem to be an offset of about 20* for the displayed data. This might explain why the 45* full retarded was displayed as 45+20 = 65 to display as about 70 as you say (the video is so out focus and I can't see the data).

IF you didn't touch on the EX sensor wheel then no reason to assume the wheel is loose causing the data to jump around. Switch the voltage from 5v to 0v as the cam turning only indicates that it detects the wheel moving, but this can't confirm that the sensing signal is correct.

Try to backtrack of why changing the vanos from old to new would cause this. What exactly you did during cams removal (cleaning the rocker shafts).

Aside from the displayed timing jumping around (with vanos connector plugged in) at idle, do you see any roughness of the running engine? Any possibility of the tool software causing this jumping data?

[boadly]

So it still jumped around 10 degrees even with no hydraulic actuation to vary the cam; this means the jumping data is caused by EX cam sensor signal or wiring. It's interesting that it shown 70* retarded this time instead of -45* as spec'ed. When you had it set at full advanced (with the VANOS elec connector plugged) the EX cam was controlled to full advanced at 0* (but this displayed data was 19* instead), so there seem to be an offset of about 20* for the displayed data. This might explain why the 45* full retarded was displayed as 45+20 = 65 to display as about 70 as you say (the video is so out focus and I can't see the data).

IF you didn't touch on the EX sensor wheel then no reason to assume the wheel is loose causing the data to jump around. Switch the voltage from 5v to 0v as the cam turning only indicates that it detects the wheel moving, but this can't confirm that the sensing signal is correct.

Try to backtrack of why changing the vanos from old to new would cause this. What exactly you did during cams removal (cleaning the rocker shafts).

Aside from the displayed timing jumping around (with vanos connector plugged in) at idle, do you see any roughness of the running engine? Any possibility of the tool software causing this jumping data?

Try to backtrack of why changing the vanos from old to new would cause this. What exactly you did during cams removal (cleaning the rocker shafts).

Just cleaned the rocker shafts so I could slide the rocker arms. Also soaked the cams and other valvetrain components in water and Simple Green.

Aside from the displayed timing jumping around (with vanos connector plugged in) at idle, do you see any roughness of the running engine? Any possibility of the tool software causing this jumping data?

Yes, it was running rough. No, I checked it with several different tools and they all showed the same thing.

I ordered a new exhaust camshaft sensor so hopefully when I get it on Monday that will resolve the problem. If not, I'll take it to my mechanic next week.

Thanks again sapote for all your input. It was very helpful.

[sapote]

And you know that the spline shafts are different for IN and EX cams.

Yes, hopefully it's just a simple EX sensor caused this, because I can't understand why the measured data jumping around 10 degrees with a disable unplugged VANOS.

Check the pins of the sensor or connector and make sure pins are not bent or missing, and connector female pin sockets should be springy or spring loaded action to have good contact with the inserted pin.

[boadly]

And you know that the spline shafts are different for IN and EX cams.

Yes

Yes, hopefully it's just a simple EX sensor caused this, because I can't understand why the measured data jumping around 10 degrees with a disable unplugged VANOS.

Check the pins of the sensor or connector and make sure pins are not bent or missing, and connector female pin sockets should be springy or spring loaded action to have good contact with the inserted pin.

Put a new camshaft sensor in today and it looks like it helped but didn't resolve everything. The 0000B9 DME: Function, exhaust VANOS fault code is now gone. However, the 00000F DME: Camshaft sensor: synchronization to crankshaft remains.

The exhaust cam position numbers came down significantly but still fluctuated quite a bit. The link below shows a video of the numbers.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8gusbbk8pAphjZ2M6

The vanos test numbers using tool32 are shown below.

apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_FRUEHANSCHLAG", "","")
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
EVAN_ISTWERT = 0
EVAN_SOLLWERT = -10
EVAN_ISTWERT_EINH = Grad KW
EVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH = Grad KW
Nr 2( 1) : 09.11.2020 17:53:44.9

apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_SPAETANSCHLAG", "","")
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
EVAN_ISTWERT = 59
EVAN_SOLLWERT = 75
EVAN_ISTWERT_EINH = Grad KW
EVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH = Grad KW
Nr 3( 1) : 09.11.2020 17:53:50.2

apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_EVANOS1_VERSTELLZEIT"," ","")
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH = 500
EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET = 276
EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH_EINH = ms
EVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET_EINH = ms
Nr 4( 1) : 09.11.2020 17:53:56.6

apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_FRUEHANSCHLAG", "","")
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
AVAN_ISTWERT = 1
AVAN_SOLLWERT = -10
AVAN_ISTWERT_EINH = Grad KW
AVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH = Grad KW
Nr 6( 1) : 09.11.2020 17:54:16.4

apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_SPAETANSCHLAG", "","")
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
AVAN_ISTWERT = 50
AVAN_SOLLWERT = 55
AVAN_ISTWERT_EINH = Grad KW
AVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH = Grad KW
Nr 7( 1) : 09.11.2020 17:54:21.7

apiJob("mss54ds0","STEUERN_AVANOS1_VERSTELLZEIT"," ","")
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH = 587
AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET = 432
AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_FRUEH_EINH = ms
AVAN_VERSTELLZEIT_SPAET_EINH = ms
Nr 8( 1) : 09.11.2020 17:54:28.0

apiJob("MSS54DS0","steuern_evanos1_dichtheit",""," ")
Satz : 0
OBJECT = mss54ds0
SAETZE = 1
JOBNAME = steuern_evanos1_dichtheit
VARIANTE = MSS54DS0
JOBSTATUS =
UBATTCURRENT = -1
UBATTHISTORY = -1
IGNITIONCURRENT = -1
IGNITIONHISTORY = -1
Satz : 1
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
EVAN_ISTWERT = 44
EVAN_ISTWERT_EINH = Grad KW
EVAN_SOLLWERT = 45
EVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH = Grad KW
EVAN_STATUS = Messung beendet, Soll-/Istwert-Vergleich ausfuehren

apiJob("MSS54DS0","steuern_avanos1_dichtheit",""," ")

Satz : 0
OBJECT = mss54ds0
SAETZE = 1
JOBNAME = steuern_avanos1_dichtheit
VARIANTE = MSS54DS0
JOBSTATUS =
UBATTCURRENT = -1
UBATTHISTORY = -1
IGNITIONCURRENT = -1
IGNITIONHISTORY = -1
Satz : 1
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
AVAN_ISTWERT = 20
AVAN_ISTWERT_EINH = Grad KW
AVAN_SOLLWERT = 15 00
AVAN_SOLLWERT_EINH = Grad KW
AVAN_STATUS = Messung beendet, Soll-/Istwert-Vergleich ausfuehren


Still don't understand what's going on so I'm going to take it to my mechanic tomorrow.

[sapote]

I see that EX still bouncing from 3 to 15 which is not right.
Question: why the Tool32 shows both IN take bank1 and back2 bouncing? There is only one EX cam and one sensor, and so this is only one data but it displays 2 sets of data bouncing. I believe the tool was designed to also work for 2 bank system, like a V6 or V8 which has 2 set of EX cams (bank 1 and 2). For the E46 only back 1 should be enable on the display as you can see the IN bank2 is disable with a fixed data 60 or 0 for Actual and Expected. However the EX display behaves total different. This is why I'm asking about the state of the tool32 in this case. Anyone else can confirm this?

at 0:24 into the video, it shows EX1 = 9.50 and EX2=4.00. This cannot be true since EX1 and EX2 are the same of one physical cam. What's going on with the tool32?

[Syfon]

OP did you manage to solve this issue?

After a fresh engine build with repaired vanos solenoid pack, I have the same code relating to exhaust vanos.

I do not have any symptoms; i.e. the car drives normally, feels normal, etc..

Unsure if this is related to the fact I spun a bearing and maybe the valve pack is not functioning correctly? Idk...

I have confirmed multiple times, the vanos unit was installed correctly and motor timed correctly too.

Cheers

[ken o]

I have P0014 after a vanos removal to replace a head gasket. OP - What was the fix for this issue?

[sapote]

I have P0014 after a vanos removal to replace a head gasket. OP - What was the fix for this issue?

Who installed and timed the vanos hardware? Did you search/Google for P0014 to learn that it is the EX cam too advanced (caused by not time the vanos correctly)?