Is my S54 hydrolocked...

[Triqzy]

I'll try to be as thorough as possible and start from the beginning. The first issue arose when I was driving around town and suddenly the exhaust note changed, then it felt like the car was running on 5 cylinders and the CEL came up immediately. I pulled the car to the side of the road. I tried restarting the car, and the starter would crank pretty strong, but the engine wouldn't turn over. Pulling codes found P0301 (Cylinder 1 misfire). I left the car alone overnight, and returned the next day to install a new coil pack. With the new coil pack installed, the car did start up, but still sounded extremely lumpy, and I noticed fuel shooting out of my exhaust cutout onto the ground. Still misfiring on cylinder 1. I replaced the spark plug next, and the car started but was still misfiring and shooting fuel out of the exhaust. I tried clearing the codes and then starting the car again, except this time when I tried to crank the car, I heard a big grind, a jolt, and then nothing. After this, my starter was no longer cranking, and I figured I blew my starter. Had the car towed to my house, figuring at this point that it was a failed/stuck injector on cylinder 1.

Fast forward 1 week to today, I removed my airbox (to replace to starter) to find my ITB's filled with fuel. I have attached photos to show this. The first photo is cylinder 1 with some liquid coming passed the butterfly valve, and the worst was cylinder 6 practically spilling out of the ITB itself. I pressed on the throttle linkage to actuate the throttle bodies to see that it was completely full of fuel behind the butterfly valves. I also found motor oil in the rubber boot that connects the cylinder 5 throttle body to the intake plenum. Not sure if this is related or how oil would even get in there.

Also, here is some additoinal info that may help in diagnosing. I have an AFD E85 kit installed currently and was running e60 at the time. RPM's at the time of failure was around 3000, I wasn't pushing the car at all and have never had an issue with the kit since it was installed. Additionally, when I took my car to the dyno, the AFR's came back lean, leading me to believe my injectors weren't very healthy and as a result I had planned to replace them soon. I have new injectors on hand currently and ready to replace if that is what is needed. Leading up to to this failure, I was experiencing a rough idle upon startup and sudden RPM drops with light throttle applied right after startup. Within 30 seconds of startup these issues would go away and the car would perform fine.

Cylinder 1


Cylinder 6

Is my engine hydrolocked? How do I drain the fuel out of the cylinders? What are my next steps?

Thanks in advance for your insight.

[Icecream]

oh boy, yeah, I'd say that is hydrolocked. Pop the spark plugs out, suck fuel out (safely, hand pump etc), replace injectors and pray nothing got bent. Were you using stock injectors?


edit: I see now that both cylinder 1 and 6 failed, which I find a little odd. What did you replace with the AFD kit? I wonder if the e85 ruined the injectors and they just both happened to fail. Thats a ton of fuel though to fill both cylinders to the tb's, over a liter. Did you hold the key in the forward position for like two minutes lol.

[Triqzy]

oh boy, yeah, I'd say that is hydrolocked. Pop the spark plugs out, suck fuel out (safely, hand pump etc), replace injectors and pray nothing got bent. Were you using stock injectors?


edit: I see now that both cylinder 1 and 6 failed, which I find a little odd. What did you replace with the AFD kit? I wonder if the e85 ruined the injectors and they just both happened to fail. Thats a ton of fuel though to fill both cylinders to the tb's, over a liter. Did you hold the key in the forward position for like two minutes lol.

The AFD kit replaces the soft fuel line under the car (that connects to the fuel filter) with a hard line that contains an ethanol sensor in it. It also provides a pigtail harness that goes between the injector and the oem injector loom and connects to the physical AFD controller.

When I flipped the butterfly valves back, 1 and 6 were the most egregiously filled with liquid, but it did appear that 3 and 5 had a little bit just barely visible. When the starter first broke, yes, I held the key in the forward position for a bit once the starter blew just to see if there was any luck that it would start if I banged on the starter with a thin pole thinking maybe the solenoid was stuck...lol.

How would I know if something is bent, compression test?

Edit: Based on what you said, I guess potentially I may have excessively flooded the cylinders with fuel once the starter was already toast. With my poor understanding of engines, I am guessing that time in which I tried starting the engine and heard a big jolt, that must've been the starter exploding trying to start an engine that had some fuel in it and was getting too much resistance? And then from there, I just further filled the cylinders to where they are now by holding the key in the forward position? In this case, I'm hoping there's a decent likelihood something isn't severely bent such as if the engine failed under very high load

[heinzboehmer]

Yeah compression/leakdown tests would be a good idea.

I wonder if maybe the e85 kit failed and kept all your injectors open. Unless you held the key for minutes there's no way that much fuel got into the cylinders just by trying to start it.

[Icecream]

How would I know if something is bent, compression test?

Edit: Based on what you said, I guess potentially I may have excessively flooded the cylinders with fuel once the starter was already toast. With my poor understanding of engines, I am guessing that time in which I tried starting the engine and heard a big jolt, that must've been the starter exploding trying to start an engine that had some fuel in it and was getting too much resistance? And then from there, I just further filled the cylinders to where they are now by holding the key in the forward position? In this case, I'm hoping there's a decent likelihood something isn't severely bent such as if the engine failed under very high load

Yeah, I'd start there, won't tell you everything (bent rod etc) but hopefully the starter couldn't do much damage. Although you did say fuel was coming out of the exhaust when it was running so who knows. I'd also dump the e85 kit for now, get it running properly on stock parts then decide if you want to deal with/risk the e85 kit again. Good luck dude, crossing my fingers for ya!

[Flat-Six]

You're prob already aware, with dumping that much fuel in the intake, I'd change the oil. Please also keep in mind, if you continue to crank/run before you resolve the issue, you run the risk of washing the cylinder('s), which could of already occurred. Yes, 100% I'd do a comp and leak down. Been down this road before. My issue years ago was a failed fuel pump pressure reg in an old Porsche that I'd converted FI to Webers, which we actually did back in the 70's!

[Arith2]

Our injectors physically CAN'T run E60 at WOT. It's physically impossible. There is a very good chance this has something to do with bad injectors unless you have upgraded them. That grind and lock up could just be the starter itself not being able to overcome the increased compression caused by the fuel. I wouldn't worry yet but you'll need to flush the fuel out and get fresh oil in there.

Don't put stock injectors back in. Get at least 440cc injectors to safely run your E85. Obviously it needs a real tune(not some garbage like BJ's can tune) Our injectors are only useful up to about E30. Then you can start running lean and causing engine problems.

Lean causes excessive heat which will destroy your engine quickly. E85 is not a plug and play in our cars. To function properly, a tune and injectors are needed. The AFD kit isn't enough.

[Sharocks]

E85 in a NA car is pointless.

OP, drain the fuel, get new sparks, engine oil, filter, injectors and do a compression/leakdown test to be sure prior to purchasing any of the things.

[Irhase46m3]

Ha! i had this happen to me a few years back, the entire car smelled like fuel but no fuel leaks. Ultimately traced it to a failure in cylinder 5 injector stuck open and flooded the engine with fuel. You will need to remove spark plugs, coils and rotate the crank (engine) clockwise and all the fuel will come out of the spark plug hole. (dont start the engine) - At this point i replaced everything i could, spark plugs, injectors, o-rings (effin o-ring!), coils, oil filter/oil (i changed my oil twice) - after this i turned the car on and it turned on as if nothing happened.

Keep in mind, i only tried turning the car on 1 time after this happened and it did not crank and left it be until i could assess the situation. In your instance you have tried turning it on multiple times which is worse as it cannot turn because cylinder is full of fuel.

I hope this information helps you.

Irhase46m3

[sapote]

You will need to remove spark plugs, coils and rotate the crank (engine) clockwise and all the fuel will come out of the spark plug hole. (dont start the engine) -

This won't clear the fuel out of the engine because the plug hole sit too low on the head.

Do this: remove the ignition coils main fuel to avoid any sparks causing car on fire; remove all plugs; crank the engine using starter which turns and moves the pistons fast enough to shoot out all the fuel into the air.

I would not too worry about bent rods as this hydro-lock occurred during cranking instead of when driving at high rpm. The starter cannot bend the rod.

[Triqzy]

Our injectors physically CAN'T run E60 at WOT. It's physically impossible. There is a very good chance this has something to do with bad injectors unless you have upgraded them. That grind and lock up could just be the starter itself not being able to overcome the increased compression caused by the fuel. I wouldn't worry yet but you'll need to flush the fuel out and get fresh oil in there.

Don't put stock injectors back in. Get at least 440cc injectors to safely run your E85. Obviously it needs a real tune(not some garbage like BJ's can tune) Our injectors are only useful up to about E30. Then you can start running lean and causing engine problems.

Lean causes excessive heat which will destroy your engine quickly. E85 is not a plug and play in our cars. To function properly, a tune and injectors are needed. The AFD kit isn't enough.

I think you're spot on. My injectors were already old with 150k miles roughly and dyno sheets did show it running lean. I think what I may end up doing is just replacing with stock injectors and running at e30. 440cc injectors are about twice the price of new OEM, and then if it requires a real tune, that further adds to the cost. However, if i can run the 440cc injectors with the AFD kit and current tune with no issues, could be worth the investment if I'm already doing the labor for it. Or would that money be best saved, and put towards more proven methods of power on our platform such as cams, airbox, etc. Curious what you would do in my situation.

Edit: Deschte Works injectors are $469 , but I just found a set for $335 https://www.injector.com/cart/pc/200...ctor-p2113.htm
For $100 over OEM could be worth it. Just not sure how reputable or compatible these are. Or if they require some sort of retuning.

[Triqzy]

Ha! i had this happen to me a few years back, the entire car smelled like fuel but no fuel leaks. Ultimately traced it to a failure in cylinder 5 injector stuck open and flooded the engine with fuel. You will need to remove spark plugs, coils and rotate the crank (engine) clockwise and all the fuel will come out of the spark plug hole. (dont start the engine) - At this point i replaced everything i could, spark plugs, injectors, o-rings (effin o-ring!), coils, oil filter/oil (i changed my oil twice) - after this i turned the car on and it turned on as if nothing happened.

Keep in mind, i only tried turning the car on 1 time after this happened and it did not crank and left it be until i could assess the situation. In your instance you have tried turning it on multiple times which is worse as it cannot turn because cylinder is full of fuel.

I hope this information helps you.

Irhase46m3

Nice to see that this has happened to someone else haha. I tried sucking out all the fuel with a hand pump through the spark plug hole, but each cylinder was dry strangely. However, when I had the airbox off, I held open all the butterfly valves and removed a decent amount of fuel from each intake runner. Strange that the cylinders were dry but the intake runners were almost full. Would have thought it to be the other way around.

[George Hill]

I would not too worry about bent rods as this hydro-lock occurred during cranking instead of when driving at high rpm. The starter cannot bend the rod.

I'm not saying you have bent rod(s), but the starter is absolutely capable of bending a rod in a hydrolock situation.

[Arith2]

I think you're spot on. My injectors were already old with 150k miles roughly and dyno sheets did show it running lean. I think what I may end up doing is just replacing with stock injectors and running at e30. 440cc injectors are about twice the price of new OEM, and then if it requires a real tune, that further adds to the cost. However, if i can run the 440cc injectors with the AFD kit and current tune with no issues, could be worth the investment if I'm already doing the labor for it. Or would that money be best saved, and put towards more proven methods of power on our platform such as cams, airbox, etc. Curious what you would do in my situation.

Edit: Deschte Works injectors are $469 , but I just found a set for $335 https://www.injector.com/cart/pc/200...ctor-p2113.htm
For $100 over OEM could be worth it. Just not sure how reputable or compatible these are. Or if they require some sort of retuning.

Different injectors require a different tune. The DME will still think you have the stock injectors and open them like stock injectors. It open the new ones for way too long causing the polar opposite. A horribly rich condition. Since E85 is less dense, the difference would be less severe but the car would run like total crap. There's a lot that goes into doing things right. These companies like AFD just want to make money. They don't care about you or your car, otherwise they'd attempt to give some guidance. It's a bolt on kit according to them which is "technically" true. It's not how business should operate but I'm glad you're here so we can sort out the garbage.

I'm not opposed to E85 at all. I think it's a great budget race fuel. Sensors make it possible to use where the mixture and octane can vary quite a bit. If you want an E85 fueled E46 M3, do it. Each mods comes with its woes. Just don't keep the same ethanol in your tank for more than month. It can hold in water. I think you have an idea and you can make it happen. My knowledge on aftermarket injectors os extremely limited as I've never modded a car to the point of needing to swap them. There are guys on here that can help with that though.

[Triqzy]

Update:

Since the time of writing this I have done the following:
- new starter
- new spark plugs
- new coil packs
- new injectors
- new oil + oil filter
- removed fuel from butterfly valves (oddly, no fuel was found in the cylinders when accessing through spark plug hole)

My only question left is, is it safe to crank the engine? I would hate to blow up another starter after I removed and reinstalled the airbox, so just doing my due diligence in checking. Additionally, the car has been down for about a month, and I know ethanol isn't supposed to sit in the tank for that long. Should I remove it (and if so, how)? Or should I go get fresh gasoline and dilute the current ethanol mixture. Gas tank is only 1/4 full currently. Thanks again guys.