My review: Koni Yellows / Eibach Springs on a daily driven M3

[Nate047]

Sorry to bump an old thread . . . but this one seems to have all the right info and members involved.

The roads in Los Angeles are quite poor (bumpy, uneven, lots of concrete expansion joints) and I just can't seem to find the same happy place with the Ohlins. My car doesn't see the track and, although I love the ride height/stance on the Ohlins, comfort and ride compliance are king.

What does the brain trust here think about switching from Ohins RT to Koni/Dinan or Koni/Eibach for comfort purposes?

I have Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs, I'm about to ruin my car so they will be for sale soon if you want. Located in Marina Del Rey.

[cobra]

Sorry to bump an old thread . . . but this one seems to have all the right info and members involved.

The roads in Los Angeles are quite poor (bumpy, uneven, lots of concrete expansion joints) and I just can't seem to find the same happy place with the Ohlins. My car doesn't see the track and, although I love the ride height/stance on the Ohlins, comfort and ride compliance are king.

What does the brain trust here think about switching from Ohins RT to Koni/Dinan or Koni/Eibach for comfort purposes?

I would run "soft" springs (300/500 rates) at stock height and either koni or bilstein dampers.

[LSB4Me]

Your 400lb front springs are the problem I think Max. I just went down to 343lb from 400lb myself last week. 400/628 like ohilns have is "pitchy" as MrGizmo said in the recent Ohlins thread. I wouldn't go up in the rear on a street car, so I would go down in the front. I was very happy with 325lb. Andre is very happy with 325lb. There's 325lb/350lb in standard, then there's 60N/mm (343lb) and 6kg (336lb) in metric, BUT that would requie you to buy camber plates so you may wish to scrap the whole thing, sell the ohlins and go with what I made Andre or a tried and true combo like Eibach or Dinan springs on Koni. Or KWv2/PSS10, esp if you already have or are willing to buy a bigger front sway bar (for those kits' progressive springs).

There aren't great middle grounds for suspension. I would get street camber plates from GC or TMS and run lighter front springs, but it will cost another $600 or so, and you won't recoup much if anything of the stock mounts and ohlins front springs. Ohlins are about as good as it gets, damper wise. But if you are "no-compromise" in comfort terms, perhaps just fresh stock components and call it a day?

This is interesting. Thanks, Tyler. Weirdly enough, the issue stems from the rear. After lengthening the shock bodies, I gained noticeable amounts of shock travel. This has taken the bump stops out of play and I can feel the components working better. However, I am still struggling to get the rear end to be less jittery over road imperfections. But . . . I have an idea.

I find the front to be perfectly compliant at the moment. After lowing the front one turn (3mm) a few months back, the front end softened up and began to behave nicely. I am wondering if the initial installer (not my current shop) left a bunch of pre-load on the springs. My thought is to have the rear springs inspected for preload and/or lowered one turn. Perhaps that will take some of the bounce out.

[cobra]

This is interesting. Thanks, Tyler. My issue stems from the rear. After lengthening the shock bodies, I gained noticeable amounts of shock travel. This has taken the bump stops out of play and I can feel the components working better. However, I am still struggling to get the rear end to be less jittery over road imperfections. But . . . I have an idea.

I find the front to be perfectly compliant at the moment. After lowing the front one turn (3mm) a few months back, the front end softened up and began to behave nicely. I am wondering if the initial installer (not my current shop) left a bunch of pre-load on the springs. My thought is to have the rear springs inspected for preload and/or lowered one turn. Perhaps that will take some of the bounce out.

How would lengthening the shock bodies increase shock travel? I would think the opposite is true as it reduces bump travel.

The preload is nothing more than a ride height adjuster so long as you're not fully extending the shocks (jumping your car?). I doubt 1 turn of preload would cause a significant change. There may be some other factor that is being affected by the ride height change.

Can you describe this "jittery" feeling more?

Keep in mind - the rear is very sensitive to changes and drives a lot of your ride quality feeling. The rear pushes you forward against the seat back making you feel bumps easily. The rear end also must deal with acceleration forces and interact with anti-squat geometry. And the shocks in the rear are mounted aft of the axle which means changes to their settings has a more pronounces effect than the front. It all combines to make a pretty sensitive setup. I've found the same thing as you - that the front generally feels good despite big changes but there is a very narrow sweet spot for the rear.

[LSB4Me]

By jittery, I mean bouncy and busy. They are simply too active and too eager to react. I have a two phase plan. First, I intend to back off the rear shocks by one click each time I drive to the office (10 miles one way with a perfect variety of road surfaces and speeds). Second, I will have the rear springs looked at for preload issues. If the rear spring has been adjusted (wound more tightly) to yield a lower ride height, I will have the spring returned to full extension.

My rear ride height is 13" and the initial installer told me this was "max height". Didn't seem right at the time. Doesn't seem right now. Maybe phase 3 is switching to a softer spring in the rear?! Idk. It shouldn't be this hard.

As I said above, I am strongly considering making a switch to Konis+Eibachs or Dinans . . . unless you experts counsel otherwise. It would be a bummer to lose my racecar stance, but it's not my racecar.

[ChapterM3]

By jittery, I mean bouncy and busy. They are simply too active and too eager to react. I have a two phase plan. First, I intend to back off the rear shocks by one click each time I drive to the office (10 miles one way with a perfect variety of road surfaces and speeds). Second, I will have the rear springs looked at for preload issues. If the rear spring has been adjusted (wound more tightly) to yield a lower ride height, I will have the spring returned to full extension.

My rear ride height is 13" and the initial installer told me this was "max height". Didn't seem right at the time. Doesn't seem right now. Maybe phase 3 is switching to a softer spring in the rear?! Idk. It shouldn't be this hard.

As I said above, I am strongly considering making a switch to Konis+Eibachs or Dinans . . . unless you experts counsel otherwise. It would be a bummer to lose my racecar stance, but it's not my racecar.

Although I made this original post a while ago when the car was still in Boston... we're now in LA. I still LOVE this setup for the streets here and for blasts in the canyons. I don't know if we've seen each other before at Newcomb's ranch but I have seen a few LSB's up there from time to time - If you want to feel this setup before pulling the trigger I'd be happy to meet up and have you feel it out - The car has new control arms and fresh OEM rubber all around as well. I have nothing but positive things to say about this OEM+ kit - But then again, I've never been in an Ohins setup!

[K-Dawg]

LSB4Me there's a lot of ways to screw up the Ohlins setup, and most people are more likely to get it wrong than right.

You may also not be feeling what you think you're feeling. IMO, as long as you're fighting pitch, you're unlikely to have the ride quality you want. I definitely would not go softer on the rear springs.

[SQ13]

Don’t you need to do the opposite by increasing the spring rate in the rear, assuming you’re aiming for flat ride.

[repoman89]

By jittery, I mean bouncy and busy. They are simply too active and too eager to react. I have a two phase plan. First, I intend to back off the rear shocks by one click each time I drive to the office (10 miles one way with a perfect variety of road surfaces and speeds). Second, I will have the rear springs looked at for preload issues. If the rear spring has been adjusted (wound more tightly) to yield a lower ride height, I will have the spring returned to full extension.

My rear ride height is 13" and the initial installer told me this was "max height". Didn't seem right at the time. Doesn't seem right now. Maybe phase 3 is switching to a softer spring in the rear?! Idk. It shouldn't be this hard.

As I said above, I am strongly considering making a switch to Konis+Eibachs or Dinans . . . unless you experts counsel otherwise. It would be a bummer to lose my racecar stance, but it's not my racecar.

Something is wrong. 13” is not the “max height” in the rear. It should be able to ride like a truck if you wanted it to. Mine sits at 13.3 and the adjuster has like an inch worth of extension left. Are you using factory rubber spring pads on top? Can you post a picture of the rear spring and adjuster assembly on the car?

[cdnabroad]

So I had the Koni / Eibach combo for a few years. I think my overall impression was that the stance looked awesome, that said I did notice, as others have mentioned some bouncy on desceding roads in corners. Now for reference I am in San Francisco so that factored into it as well. In the end I ended up swithing out the Eibach's for DINAN springs and feel that the ride is much better for me anyway. Now I think the cornering on flat roads is not as true, but its not that far off and compensated for by the handling on uneven roads, especially downhill.

2c

[LSB4Me]

Something is wrong. 13” is not the “max height” in the rear. It should be able to ride like a truck if you wanted it to. Mine sits at 13.3 and the adjuster has like an inch worth of extension left. Are you using factory rubber spring pads on top? Can you post a picture of the rear spring and adjuster assembly on the car?

This is very encouraging. Thanks, Repoman.

I will get a photo of my rear adjuster tomorrow but, based on this, I suspect there are still threads remaining to raise the rear. Pretty sure the rubber pads are in place. I wanted to keep everything rubber and OEM … for comfort. Hah.

Would you happen to have a photo of your adjuster (or know how many exposed threads you have above the silver locking collars) for your 13.3” ride height?

[LSB4Me]

LSB4Me there's a lot of ways to screw up the Ohlins setup, and most people are more likely to get it wrong than right.

You may also not be feeling what you think you're feeling. IMO, as long as you're fighting pitch, you're unlikely to have the ride quality you want. I definitely would not go softer on the rear springs.

Spot on—I am sure something wasn’t done correctly during my initial install. I’m getting there. Lengthening the rear shock gave me compression stroke that I was missing and got me off the bump stops.

I have honed in on 12-15 clicks from full stiff. Anything stiffer rides harsh and the rear end pogos over bumps. Anything softer and the rear feels loose and won’t settle down.

New clue today: With more weight in the rear (half tank of gas plus 30lbs in the trunk), the car rode better at the same damper setting than it does without the weight. It felt more controlled and compliant. Without the weight, it was bouncy again.

[Tbonem3]

More weight effectively loweres spring rate which is like slowing (stiffer) rebound. You could try a couple of more clicks towards full.

Bouncy means not enough rebound control. I just find it hard to believe that a stout damper like ohlins needs that much rebound adjustment to control the 628lb springs that come with the kit. I think the full track kit comes with stiffer rear springs, so would the dampers then need to be adjusted towards maximum? Dubious, but maybe. I'm actually installing ohlins rear springs now (mcs dampers).

I wonder if the installer forgot the rubber pads (upper & lower) that go under the upper/lower rear spring perches which is contributing to your harshness. I'm contemplating running a factory rubber upper pad (5mm m3 or even 7.5mm non M) to combat that further.

[cobra]

By jittery, I mean bouncy and busy. They are simply too active and too eager to react. I have a two phase plan. First, I intend to back off the rear shocks by one click each time I drive to the office (10 miles one way with a perfect variety of road surfaces and speeds). Second, I will have the rear springs looked at for preload issues. If the rear spring has been adjusted (wound more tightly) to yield a lower ride height, I will have the spring returned to full extension.

My rear ride height is 13" and the initial installer told me this was "max height". Didn't seem right at the time. Doesn't seem right now. Maybe phase 3 is switching to a softer spring in the rear?! Idk. It shouldn't be this hard.

As I said above, I am strongly considering making a switch to Konis+Eibachs or Dinans . . . unless you experts counsel otherwise. It would be a bummer to lose my racecar stance, but it's not my racecar.

I was doing some research and stumbled on this conversion kit: https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...w-e46-m3-01-up

If I were you, I would consider running Koni Sport or Bilstein B12 shocks with this kit, and 300F/500R spring rates. If you don't like it you can tweak spring rates easily rather than being locked into the ride height and rates set by Dinan or Eibach.

[LSB4Me]

More weight effectively loweres spring rate which is like slowing (stiffer) rebound. You could try a couple of more clicks towards full.

Bouncy means not enough rebound control. I just find it hard to believe that a stout damper like ohlins needs that much rebound adjustment to control the 628lb springs that come with the kit. I think the full track kit comes with stiffer rear springs, so would the dampers then need to be adjusted towards maximum? Dubious, but maybe. I'm actually installing ohlins rear springs now (mcs dampers).

I wonder if the installer forgot the rubber pads (upper & lower) that go under the upper/lower rear spring perches which is contributing to your harshness. I'm contemplating running a factory rubber upper pad (5mm m3 or even 7.5mm non M) to combat that further.

Thanks, Tyler! This was sage advice. I clicked up on the damper and am having a happier week. Would raising the rear (effectively compressing the spring, as I understand it) lower the spring rate, much like loading weight in the trunk?

Regarding spring perches (upper pads), I’m told that the Ohlins kit comes with its own—very thin—pads. I presume that my installer went with these, rather than any of the OE variants.

Question for those in the know: Can I run OE upper spring pads with on rear Ohlins springs? I bought a pair of 5mm ones, just in case. The plan is to raise the rear slightly on Monday and/or install the upper spring pads, then reassess.