Failed vanos test post Beisan

[heinzboehmer]

Thanks, right so I'm down at 100 bar then. Took about 10 seconds from cold to 105 bar. I also recorded another video and watched the pressure during the VANOS test and saw fluctuations down to 90-95 bar as the VANOS was actuating.

Either way I still get passing VANOS results with the right numbers.

Edit: This MS54B32 document I have says 100 bar conflicting with the one you posted (attached).

Someone else should confirm, but I'm pretty sure consensus is that the spec is 115. The 100 bar seen in that document is a typo or a carry over from the S50 or an old spec or something of that nature.

But yeah someone else should chime in if I'm wrong/remembering stuff incorrectly

[Shonky]

Someone else should confirm, but I'm pretty sure consensus is that the spec is 115. The 100 bar seen in that document is a typo or a carry over from the S50 or an old spec or something of that nature.

But yeah someone else should chime in if I'm wrong/remembering stuff incorrectly

Yeah that seems to be the case. It was 100 bar possibly because of the document I posted (dated 04/2002) but later came out that it was supposed to be 115, hence the confusion. Your document is dated 09/2005 too.

[Cubieman]

Another data point on this. I managed to rig up a pressure guage on mine. DIS VANOS tests are showing the generally expected 200-220ms range.



VANOS pressure from cold ramps up in about 20 seconds to about 105 bar (don't have video of warm up but will definitely do again). As the engine warms up it drops to closer to 100bar at idle and at 2000 or 3000rpm stays basically the same. At shutdown, it drops much quicker than that other thread's video initially and and 40-20 bar takes about 1 minute. Otherwise the VANOS seems to be working pretty well. Either way, a faster pressure drop in my case does not result in slow VANOS advance/retard times. From this video it appears an accumulator may fix that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGqweBmz4bg

My vehicle:

I am about to do a full Beisan install. Glad I have the before pressure tests.

I see references to 100 bar and to 115 bar. Do we know which it is for sure? I can't find a value anywhere in TIS. Some of the official documentation of the system refers to 100 bar so where did 115 come from?

Very nice, now don't mess it up like I somehow managed to do!
Thanks for taking the time to post this information, quite helpful, and I am quite jealous or your healthy vanos!

[maupineda]

Another data point on this. I managed to rig up a pressure guage on mine. DIS VANOS tests are showing the generally expected 200-220ms range.



VANOS pressure from cold ramps up in about 20 seconds to about 105 bar (don't have video of warm up but will definitely do again). As the engine warms up it drops to closer to 100bar at idle and at 2000 or 3000rpm stays basically the same. At shutdown, it drops much quicker than that other thread's video initially and and 40-20 bar takes about 1 minute. Otherwise the VANOS seems to be working pretty well. Either way, a faster pressure drop in my case does not result in slow VANOS advance/retard times. From this video it appears an accumulator may fix that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGqweBmz4bg

My vehicle:

I am about to do a full Beisan install. Glad I have the before pressure tests.

I see references to 100 bar and to 115 bar. Do we know which it is for sure? I can't find a value anywhere in TIS. Some of the official documentation of the system refers to 100 bar so where did 115 come from?

leave it alone. Is fine. If anything your seals are a bit tired but they are fine. With your results I would wait. I bet your car drives fine. What makes you want to faf with it?

[Cubieman]

Quick question, what does "°CR" stand for (US DIS test) and also "°KW" (German DIS test)?

On a side note, I hope to have a swapped disc/inlet valve done by Wednesday, results to follow.

[Slideways]

Quick question, what does "°CR" stand for (US DIS test) and also "°KW" (German DIS test)?

On a side note, I hope to have a swapped disc/inlet valve done by Wednesday, results to follow.

Degrees camshaft rotation or Nockenwellendrehungen perhaps

[maupineda]

Quick question, what does "°CR" stand for (US DIS test) and also "°KW" (German DIS test)?

On a side note, I hope to have a swapped disc/inlet valve done by Wednesday, results to follow.

To test leak the DME sets the cams at 115 degrees and then stops actioning the solenoids and then monitors the rotation of the cams. A completely sealed system would show 0, but that is not possible. Tolerance is up to 5 degrees of deviation. His values are around the middle, i would not do seals unless cam displacement was more than 3 (due to my OCD). But up to 5 is fine and you wont notice it.

[Shonky]

leave it alone. Is fine. If anything your seals are a bit tired but they are fine. With your results I would wait. I bet your car drives fine. What makes you want to faf with it?

Error code 0xB8 comes semi regularly
Have also had 0x43 or 0x48 previously (didn't save them and they haven't come back so not 100% which ones)
Also have the factory disc/tabs
VANOS has a bit of rattle although that doesn't particularly concern me.
Need/want to check cam sprocket bolts

When the error is cleared it definitely feels better by the seat of pants.

And this although not 100% sure of the significance - it does say both inlet and exhaust are adapted:

[maupineda]

those errors sound like you may have a solenoid pack on its way out, but mechanically, the unit seems fine. I get your point now on the concerns with the tabs and bolts. is your car a high miler?

[sapote]

Another data point on this. I managed to rig up a pressure guage on mine. DIS VANOS tests are showing the generally expected 200-220ms range.

I see references to 100 bar and to 115 bar. Do we know which it is for sure? I can't find a value anywhere in TIS. Some of the official documentation of the system refers to 100 bar so where did 115 come from?

I think early cars came with 100bar relief valves and later cars with 115bar. Overall your vanos performed well, but ACC might be a little flat.
It's interesting that both IN and EX pistons needed more time to retard than advance, as normally the effect of the helix splines should cause them to advance slower than when retarding.

For street driving, I would leave it at 100bar which is more than enough and reduce the load, wear and tear on the VANOS components.

[sapote]

Took about 10 seconds from cold to 105 bar. I also recorded another video and watched the pressure during the VANOS test and saw fluctuations down to 90-95 bar as the VANOS was actuating.

Building up pressure too fast, and this indicates the ACC is flat and has no capacity for reserve. It should be fine unless you are tracking it.

[sapote]

I hope to have a swapped disc/inlet valve done by Wednesday, results to follow.

Don't change two variables at one time then we never know what is the root cause. I think your inlet valve is fine so just leave it alone now.
BTW, why do they need to add this low pressure regulator here?

[sapote]

Also have the factory disc/tabs
VANOS has a bit of rattle although that doesn't particularly concern me.
Need/want to check cam sprocket bolts

Before doing the rattle rebuild, can you try to see if the bearing shaft has any axial plays when push/pull on the 2 ends? If not the rattle could be the loose tabs in the large holes.
The sprockets held down by the hub bolts and this is not what you want to Loctite. The cam sleeve bolts are the one.

[Shonky]

those errors sound like you may have a solenoid pack on its way out, but mechanically, the unit seems fine. I get your point now on the concerns with the tabs and bolts. is your car a high miler?

My understanding is that the electrical codes (P0010 and P0013 not sure in BMW codes) are generally solenoid related (at least the soldered joints on the connector failing). I think I may have gotten one of those a long time ago but didn't know enough to log it properly.

Car is just over 100 000kms

I think early cars came with 100bar relief valves and later cars with 115bar. Overall your vanos performed well, but ACC might be a little flat.
It's interesting that both IN and EX pistons needed more time to retard than advance, as normally the effect of the helix splines should cause them to advance slower than when retarding.

Have done 4 tests in two separate sessions (i.e. just repeated the test on two occassions)
Intake retard times were 2ms faster, 2ms slower, 2ms faster and 16ms slower
Exhaust retard times were 7ms slower, 29ms slower, 31ms slower and 0ms (ie same)

Mine's an 08/2004 build so I would presume the 115bar pressure should be normal.

Building up pressure too fast, and this indicates the ACC is flat and has no capacity for reserve. It should be fine unless you are tracking it.

Why would flat make it build up too fast? Surely the opposite? It definitely leaks down faster than other videos I've seen. I'm not tracking it.

Something I did notice is the BMW banjo has 4 orifices but the double M10 banjo I used to measure pressure only has 2 per banjo bolt. I ordered the ebay one everyone else has but still hasn't arrived so I went for another solution. I doubt that would make any significant difference would it?

[Shonky]

Before doing the rattle rebuild, can you try to see if the bearing shaft has any axial plays when push/pull on the 2 ends? If not the rattle could be the loose tabs in the large holes.
The sprockets held down by the hub bolts and this is not what you want to Loctite. The cam sleeve bolts are the one.

I don't quite follow - you mean the shaft the oil pump disc goes on?

Beisan refers to them as "sprocket sleeve bolts" and "sprocket hub bolt". Those ones.