Interest in: 1:1 CSL 1 Piece Forged Wheels

[Sharocks]

Oh I just don't want Apex wheels because everyone and their moms run them on BMW's.

The rest of the technical reasons have been posted above but it's really that simple.

When they came out all I saw was a rep BBS RC in better offsets.

Which in itself isn't a bad thing, since the OG RC's had horrendous offsets for E46 M3's.

But they quickly became THE wheel. And well they lost their appeal in terms of looks IMHO.

Practicality wise, if I didn't scoop up my 17" Forgelines, I'd most probably have a set of ARC8's in 17x10.

[IamFODI]

Come on, the Mazda needs some forged Fuchs

Had my eye on some sweet Volks! Wife said no. 😭

[repoman89]

Serious question for those who can't stand the flow formed ARC8's.

What's so important to you having wheels that are forged? Cars and Coffee guys pick on you?

For those looking for real facts, I've had set(s) of apex wheels since 2011 on these cars. Never vent or broken a wheel. Not saying it hasn't happened, but the failure rate is extremely low and in the documented cases I've read about, Apex customer service provided a replacement wheel.

They don't win you points at car shows though, I get that.

Location: AZ. Oh hi, you must have never driven on New England roads. Particularly the best ones in the northern mountain regions, but really any of them.

Regular wheels are steering vibration city quickly, try as I might to avoid every frost heave and pothole. My RGRs have held up far, far better than any of my others (including cheaper forged wheels from BW).

[Obioban]

Yeah, no contest between Apex quality and Tier 1 quality wheels. I've had multiple Apex issues over very few miles. Meanwhile, smooth sailing over hundreds of thousands of miles with my well made wheels.

I recently got off Apex even for track use (where traditionally I prioritize cheap, and there are no pot holes to stress them) because I was tired of dealing with failure.

The one series I recently bought came with Apexs, and in a surprise to no one, they're vibrating.

[Epoustouflant]

Epoustouflant are you able to share where the wheels in this group buy are made?

Absolutely, it will a big part of my documentation, and a reason why this project has been slow: they will be machined in China, painted finishes will be done here with high durability paints I've been testing with ExclusivAutomotiv. I will have the wheels TUV tested, and homologated for EU use in a specific ET as well.

I have no problem believing Apex's "forged" wheels really are forged. But "forged" is just a general description of one aspect of the production process. What about the alloys used? Quality of the blanks? All the other aspects of the production process? I'd rather have a forged Apex wheel than anything cast or flow-formed from other low-end aftermarket brands but, at half the price or less vs. BBS/Volk/etc., it makes sense that no Apex wheel is as strong/stiff as one from those high-end brands.

There are various components leading up to the price difference between China and Japan / US forged wheel manufacturing.

I'll dive on most of them during documentation.

A few observations:

• Forged wheels in China is relatively recent, they didn't use to have the capacity to do it.
• Apex optimizes for low weight as a main selling feature, it will lead to higher rate of failures considering various factors: motorsport usage, QC at this manufacturing scale, engineering, etc.
• I don't believe the market is there for a US made CSL wheel that would be in the 5,000$ USD + range for a set.
• I don't believe China is any good at paint having seen many of these wheels up close (Apex, ProTrack, AG, etc) so I'm not even bothering trying.
• I don't believe China can be trusted on QC at scale.y.

Overall, my intention is to created a tailor-made CSL wheel replica program for street cars. I am even considering bumping the load rating to 1,700kg and adding a bit of material to the wheel for durability.

Going for the numbers game is something the Germans are best at: it requires a level of engineering, manufacturing and QC that I don't believe China can replicate (and certainly not innovate on).

[Epsilon]

Curious if revitalizing the Japan made forged RAC Monolite RG4 was considered when this project was green lit? I think from some old thread, Obioban had contacts to the creators and it was simply a demand issue.

[9kracing]

There's only a handful of wheel forges in the world, and like Matt mentioned, China recently got one.

I actually think it's the old Russian forge Desmond used to use. Desmond now uses Taneisya's forge in Japan, who also makes the wheels for Dinan.

Rays has one, OZ has one, BBS has one. AFAIK APP is the only foundry in the US, and produces all the US "forged" wheels like HRE.

[Will]

I think Taiwan can make forged wheels.

[Epoustouflant]

There's only a handful of wheel forges in the world, and like Matt mentioned, China recently got one.

I actually think it's the old Russian forge Desmond used to use. Desmond now uses Taneisya's forge in Japan, who also makes the wheels for Dinan.

Rays has one, OZ has one, BBS has one. AFAIK APP is the only foundry in the US, and produces all the US "forged" wheels like HRE.

This is great info! If you'd like to participate in the documentation, feel free to send me a DM, or provide more information.

Ultimately, I am not a wheel engineer - I am creating this project from talking to credible people in the wheel industry.

I think Taiwan can make forged wheels.

You'll find mostly brokers there, they have moved to carbon barrels or OEM suppliers. M. Lee at YFCM is a useful contact for this, and has introduced me to very interesting companies.

If the first OE+ version is successful, I'd love to push the concept further by converting to a 2 piece wheel with a carbon barrel - a man can dream.

[AWE46M3]

Curious if revitalizing the Japan made forged RAC Monolite RG4 was considered when this project was green lit? I think from some old thread, Obioban had contacts to the creators and it was simply a demand issue.

I’ve been looking for a set of RAC RG4’s for the last year. Love that wheel 👌🏽 The slight variations they made to the CSL wheel design were perfect IMO.

[nyc951]

Epoustouflant

What's the expected weight for 19” versions of these wheels?

[Epoustouflant]

Epoustouflant

What's the expected weight for 19” versions of these wheels?

The goal is similar to OE.

The final weight will depend on a few things:

1. Widths & Offsets
   1. My set being cut is at the lowest available offset in these monoblock forging profiles with 19x9+10 and 19x10+14
      1. I am running the 10mm widened fender, hence the offsets.
   2. Lower offset means more backpad, so more material, and the extra width will add some weight.
2. Load rating
   1. The proto-set being cut is rated at 1520kg like OE.
   2. I'm evaluating to test a 1700kg rated wheel for superior durability as well. It would add some weight.

So - in short, I'll know when I'll have them on hand ETA is late September / early October. The car will be on the road by then with its complete suspension fitted, I'll be able to document fitment options thoroughly.

[WestBankM4]

Anything will be lighter than these 19" VMR's I'm running, I'm holding out Matt so make sure you come through. Would love the timeless design of the CSL wheel in better offsets and weight. Excited but that means I'm putting a hold on finding a set of used BBS's right now.

[Epoustouflant]

Anything will be lighter than these 19" VMR's I'm running, I'm holding out Matt so make sure you come through. Would love the timeless design of the CSL wheel in better offsets and weight. Excited but that means I'm putting a hold on finding a set of used BBS's right now.

I believe the VMR V703s are 14.5 kg / 32 lbs + in 19x9.5 depending on offsets?

At 1600kg load rating, it was about the same weight as the OEM flow formed rear wheels which are 19x9.5J ET27 at roughly 11.x kgs / 25.x lbs from looking up online. I need to actually weigh it to validate.

I'd like a 1800kg load rating to be bend-proof on the streets considering these are commissioned to specs per build. There won't be off-the-shelf inventory as most have their own fitment goals without spacers.

See below for the 19x10J ET15 render. This wasn't the final one as a few corrections needed to be done and some features were missing.

[C///M]

Cool face profile.

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