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    TTV's S54 Supalite Flywheel

    TTV's S54 Supalite Flywheel : Forged Carbon

    I'm thinking this may be of interest for some of you.

    In the Fall of 2020, I organized a 20 set group buy for the E9X M3 TTV lightweight flywheel. It filled out rapidly. I run their DCT product.
    Ben @ TTV was impressed by the rapid support of the community. I have since been working with Ben to expand the product line to all other BMW M chassis in North America, Asia, Australia and the Middle East.

    This is their S54 Supalite flywheel. It weights 5.3 kg. The stock unit is 10.9kg. Great efficiency gains. These usually retail for 799 US, but I've been working Ben via the Connex for us at 600 US shipped. Could even be lower with 10x units.

    From my quick research into S54 flywheels, it seems there are many aluminum alternatives.

    What is you guys view on these?

    Link for more info: https://euroconnex.co/collections/e4...eight-flywheel
    Attached Files
    I try to make BMW M owners' life easier at EuroConnex
    @m3_epoustouflant

    E46 M3 '03 PY / M-Tex / 6spd
    E92 M3 '12 FO / Speed Cloth / DCT
    E60 M5 '06 SPG / SMG

    #2
    How bad is the chatter?
    2004 BMW ///M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon 6MT
    2000 BMW ///M5 Royal Red/Extended Caramel 6MT
    2000 BMW ///Z3M Coupe Cosmos Black/Dark Gray/Black 6MT
    2004 BMW X5 Toledo Blue/Sand Beige 6MT


    Instagram

    Comment


      #3
      Interest if no chatter.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Sharocks View Post
        How bad is the chatter?
        It's not that bad - but there is some, there's no way around that with single mass.
        I try to make BMW M owners' life easier at EuroConnex
        @m3_epoustouflant

        E46 M3 '03 PY / M-Tex / 6spd
        E92 M3 '12 FO / Speed Cloth / DCT
        E60 M5 '06 SPG / SMG

        Comment


          #5
          This is a seasoned bunch. By that I mean when I went asking about SMF options, many had tried them or knew of collective experiences. Felt like a net negative outlook on here so 10 units seem like a steep hill. Folks use the terms chatter and transmission rattle interchangeably but many loath the gear lash noise inside the E46's Getrag 420g. It is indeed a noisy transmission when coupled with a SMF, worsening the lighter the flywheel gets.
          '05 M3 Convertible 6MT, CB/Cinnamon, CSL Airbox&Flap, PCSTuning, Beisan, Schrick 288/280, SS V1's & 2.5" System, RE Stg 1&SMF, KW V2, CB PS, Apex EC-7R

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Epoustouflant View Post

            It's not that bad - but there is some, there's no way around that with single mass.

            mostly depends on clutch disc, rigid or sprung hub.

            but gearbox condition make difference also. i had experience previously, when 3 cars on the same kit works silent and fourth make some noise after heating.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jbfrancis3 View Post
              This is a seasoned bunch. By that I mean when I went asking about SMF options, many had tried them or knew of collective experiences. Felt like a net negative outlook on here so 10 units seem like a steep hill. Folks use the terms chatter and transmission rattle interchangeably but many loath the gear lash noise inside the E46's Getrag 420g. It is indeed a noisy transmission when coupled with a SMF, worsening the lighter the flywheel gets.
              There's a reason we don't like rattling noises at idle in neutral.

              It hides the real scary rattling at idle aka vanos.

              LOL
              2004 BMW ///M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon 6MT
              2000 BMW ///M5 Royal Red/Extended Caramel 6MT
              2000 BMW ///Z3M Coupe Cosmos Black/Dark Gray/Black 6MT
              2004 BMW X5 Toledo Blue/Sand Beige 6MT


              Instagram

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Slonik View Post


                mostly depends on clutch disc, rigid or sprung hub.

                but gearbox condition make difference also. i had experience previously, when 3 cars on the same kit works silent and fourth make some noise after heating.
                What are you doing! Get back in the shop 😂😂😂

                Thanks for the input Mikhail.
                I try to make BMW M owners' life easier at EuroConnex
                @m3_epoustouflant

                E46 M3 '03 PY / M-Tex / 6spd
                E92 M3 '12 FO / Speed Cloth / DCT
                E60 M5 '06 SPG / SMG

                Comment


                  #9
                  FWIW, AASCO makes an E46 M3 flywheel which is 11lb (this one here is 5.3kg/11.7lb) and can be reduced to 10.5lb upon request. They're made to order and very high quality (used in many Porsche race cars as well) and last time I checked are under $400 and made in USA. You must contact them to order as it's not listed online.

                  As mentioned by others, the idle chatter is caused by the transmission and is unavoidable when using a SMF regardless of brand.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by BBRTuning View Post
                    FWIW, AASCO makes an E46 M3 flywheel which is 11lb (this one here is 5.3kg/11.7lb) and can be reduced to 10.5lb upon request. They're made to order and very high quality (used in many Porsche race cars as well) and last time I checked are under $400 and made in USA. You must contact them to order as it's not listed online.

                    As mentioned by others, the idle chatter is caused by the transmission and is unavoidable when using a SMF regardless of brand.
                    It’s aluminum, a no-no.
                    I try to make BMW M owners' life easier at EuroConnex
                    @m3_epoustouflant

                    E46 M3 '03 PY / M-Tex / 6spd
                    E92 M3 '12 FO / Speed Cloth / DCT
                    E60 M5 '06 SPG / SMG

                    Comment


                      #11
                      SMF sucks ass for street/daily driving, the chatter really does mask other more problematic noises. It's great for a track car though. You can reduce the chatter with different fluids but you're kind of chasing your tail at that point.
                      Topaz Blue E46 M3 6MT
                      Sterling Silver E34 M5 3.9L
                      Sterling Gray E39 M5
                      Sapphire Black Metallic E60 M5 6MT
                      Lemans Blue E90 335d
                      Orient Blue E39 530i

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Epoustouflant View Post

                        It’s aluminum, a no-no.
                        Could you elaborate? Most if not all the aluminium options use replaceable friction surfaces.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by BBRTuning View Post
                          FWIW, AASCO makes an E46 M3 flywheel which is 11lb (this one here is 5.3kg/11.7lb) and can be reduced to 10.5lb upon request. They're made to order and very high quality (used in many Porsche race cars as well) and last time I checked are under $400 and made in USA. You must contact them to order as it's not listed online.

                          As mentioned by others, the idle chatter is caused by the transmission and is unavoidable when using a SMF regardless of brand.
                          BBR,


                          One must understand the design of the transmission.

                          G420 started life on E34M5 Euro 3.8. The 3.8 its designed to be sold to
                          public with Dual Mass flywheel.

                          G420 design does not have internal Damper Springs to reduce chatter
                          because the G420 was design for cars with Dual Mass fly and the DMF
                          is basically the dampening spring.

                          Older E28M5, E34M5 3.5 came from the Factory with SMF. The E34M5
                          version was 11.5 pounds. When these transmission were under 100k miles with
                          regular oil change they never chatter. On one of my DD E24M6 I have
                          7.4 pounds fly wheel and 228mm set up. With my G260 and lumpy idle
                          I have almost zero chatter at +/-750rpm idle speed.

                          E34M5 does not have a Vanos system and the idle is extreme lumpy and
                          that only increases chatter and yet these transmission are very very
                          quite but as the milage increase the gears do ware out as any other
                          part on the car and they get little chatter at idle but that can be seen on
                          cars whit over 100k and poorly maintained. The trick is to mix MT90 with MTL
                          50-50 so that to cushion the gear chatter which is caused by the worn
                          out gears. This trick can be done on G420 but for those who are in
                          warm climates. I have tested and it works very very well straight MT-90
                          whit DMF but the car lives in So.Cal. and the warm up time is pretty
                          quick.

                          MT90 is not good for cold climates because it will cause the 3 piece
                          synchro to stick when shifting and will cause hard shifting.

                          During tune on the E24S54 I had some issues with ITBs and the idle
                          was extreme lumpy like the engine did not have vanos. Oh man this
                          G420 on idle was going lose its own guts on the ground !!! to a point
                          I said this is bad transmission....but ones the issues I had was fixed
                          the tranny is very quite with the DMF even driven straight for an hour
                          with anger.

                          S54 has Nasty harmonics and having SMF is only making the gear
                          lash chatter for the worst transferring the vibrations to the crankshaft.

                          At hi engine speed the gear box lash gets much less because all is
                          under load but still the lash goes thru harmonics in different loads
                          of rpms

                          I see not much gains for having SMF vs DMF I have installed a single
                          mass on S54 cars and its just nasty resonances and vibration at low
                          engine speed when on low gear. Yes with SMF it will rev little just little
                          better but the gains are neglected....


                          One may get clever by reducing machining the dual DMF but the issue
                          is that DMF can not be Balanced.

                          I see nothing wrong with brand new DMF.

                          Regards,
                          Anri
                          Last edited by Anri; 03-10-2021, 08:09 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by BBRTuning View Post

                            Could you elaborate? Most if not all the aluminium options use replaceable friction surfaces.
                            There is no engineering benefits to using aluminum, it’s purely cost cutting.

                            Here’s an excerpt from discussions with Ben @ TTV:

                            Aluminium is 1/3rd the weight of steel but its also 1/3rd the strength, as such, you need 3 times as much of it.

                            Having 2 different materials bolted together is not ideal when the parts warm up and start to expand as the expansion rates are different putting components under stress, this is more important when you consider the starter ring gear is steel. Failure here could be catastrophic.

                            Motorsport teams will not use aluminium flywheels due to their inherent reliability risks, the steel used for the friction faces tend to be of lower quality and wear out quickly when used with modern drivetrain friction materials.
                            I try to make BMW M owners' life easier at EuroConnex
                            @m3_epoustouflant

                            E46 M3 '03 PY / M-Tex / 6spd
                            E92 M3 '12 FO / Speed Cloth / DCT
                            E60 M5 '06 SPG / SMG

                            Comment


                              #15
                              i had smf on my m3 with no chatter
                              and yes, i'm on dct now, also with smf, with almost to none chatter (they is no way to get "sprung hub" clutch on dct).

                              by the way, we have made about 1000 of aluminum flywheels already (mostly for VAGs), and all works great ;D

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