TTV's S54 Supalite Flywheel

[Epoustouflant]

TTV's S54 Supalite Flywheel : Forged Carbon

I'm thinking this may be of interest for some of you.

In the Fall of 2020, I organized a 20 set group buy for the E9X M3 TTV lightweight flywheel. It filled out rapidly. I run their DCT product.
Ben @ TTV was impressed by the rapid support of the community. I have since been working with Ben to expand the product line to all other BMW M chassis in North America, Asia, Australia and the Middle East.

This is their S54 Supalite flywheel. It weights 5.3 kg. The stock unit is 10.9kg. Great efficiency gains. These usually retail for 799 US, but I've been working Ben via the Connex for us at 600 US shipped. Could even be lower with 10x units.

From my quick research into S54 flywheels, it seems there are many aluminum alternatives.

What is you guys view on these?

Link for more info: https://euroconnex.co/collections/e4...eight-flywheel

[Sharocks]

How bad is the chatter?

[pawa_k2001]

Interest if no chatter.

[Epoustouflant]

How bad is the chatter?

It's not that bad - but there is some, there's no way around that with single mass.

[jbfrancis3]

This is a seasoned bunch. By that I mean when I went asking about SMF options, many had tried them or knew of collective experiences. Felt like a net negative outlook on here so 10 units seem like a steep hill. Folks use the terms chatter and transmission rattle interchangeably but many loath the gear lash noise inside the E46's Getrag 420g. It is indeed a noisy transmission when coupled with a SMF, worsening the lighter the flywheel gets.

[Slonik]

It's not that bad - but there is some, there's no way around that with single mass.

mostly depends on clutch disc, rigid or sprung hub.

but gearbox condition make difference also. i had experience previously, when 3 cars on the same kit works silent and fourth make some noise after heating.

[Sharocks]

This is a seasoned bunch. By that I mean when I went asking about SMF options, many had tried them or knew of collective experiences. Felt like a net negative outlook on here so 10 units seem like a steep hill. Folks use the terms chatter and transmission rattle interchangeably but many loath the gear lash noise inside the E46's Getrag 420g. It is indeed a noisy transmission when coupled with a SMF, worsening the lighter the flywheel gets.

There's a reason we don't like rattling noises at idle in neutral.

It hides the real scary rattling at idle aka vanos.

LOL

[Epoustouflant]

mostly depends on clutch disc, rigid or sprung hub.

but gearbox condition make difference also. i had experience previously, when 3 cars on the same kit works silent and fourth make some noise after heating.

What are you doing! Get back in the shop 😂😂😂

Thanks for the input Mikhail.

[BBRTuning]

FWIW, AASCO makes an E46 M3 flywheel which is 11lb (this one here is 5.3kg/11.7lb) and can be reduced to 10.5lb upon request. They're made to order and very high quality (used in many Porsche race cars as well) and last time I checked are under $400 and made in USA. You must contact them to order as it's not listed online.

As mentioned by others, the idle chatter is caused by the transmission and is unavoidable when using a SMF regardless of brand.

[Epoustouflant]

FWIW, AASCO makes an E46 M3 flywheel which is 11lb (this one here is 5.3kg/11.7lb) and can be reduced to 10.5lb upon request. They're made to order and very high quality (used in many Porsche race cars as well) and last time I checked are under $400 and made in USA. You must contact them to order as it's not listed online.

As mentioned by others, the idle chatter is caused by the transmission and is unavoidable when using a SMF regardless of brand.

It’s aluminum, a no-no.

[EthanolTurbo]

SMF sucks ass for street/daily driving, the chatter really does mask other more problematic noises. It's great for a track car though. You can reduce the chatter with different fluids but you're kind of chasing your tail at that point.

[BBRTuning]

It’s aluminum, a no-no.

Could you elaborate? Most if not all the aluminium options use replaceable friction surfaces.

[Anri]

FWIW, AASCO makes an E46 M3 flywheel which is 11lb (this one here is 5.3kg/11.7lb) and can be reduced to 10.5lb upon request. They're made to order and very high quality (used in many Porsche race cars as well) and last time I checked are under $400 and made in USA. You must contact them to order as it's not listed online.

As mentioned by others, the idle chatter is caused by the transmission and is unavoidable when using a SMF regardless of brand.

BBR,


One must understand the design of the transmission.

G420 started life on E34M5 Euro 3.8. The 3.8 its designed to be sold to
public with Dual Mass flywheel.

G420 design does not have internal Damper Springs to reduce chatter
because the G420 was design for cars with Dual Mass fly and the DMF
is basically the dampening spring.

Older E28M5, E34M5 3.5 came from the Factory with SMF. The E34M5
version was 11.5 pounds. When these transmission were under 100k miles with
regular oil change they never chatter. On one of my DD E24M6 I have
7.4 pounds fly wheel and 228mm set up. With my G260 and lumpy idle
I have almost zero chatter at +/-750rpm idle speed.

E34M5 does not have a Vanos system and the idle is extreme lumpy and
that only increases chatter and yet these transmission are very very
quite but as the milage increase the gears do ware out as any other
part on the car and they get little chatter at idle but that can be seen on
cars whit over 100k and poorly maintained. The trick is to mix MT90 with MTL
50-50 so that to cushion the gear chatter which is caused by the worn
out gears. This trick can be done on G420 but for those who are in
warm climates. I have tested and it works very very well straight MT-90
whit DMF but the car lives in So.Cal. and the warm up time is pretty
quick.

MT90 is not good for cold climates because it will cause the 3 piece
synchro to stick when shifting and will cause hard shifting.

During tune on the E24S54 I had some issues with ITBs and the idle
was extreme lumpy like the engine did not have vanos. Oh man this
G420 on idle was going lose its own guts on the ground !!! to a point
I said this is bad transmission....but ones the issues I had was fixed
the tranny is very quite with the DMF even driven straight for an hour
with anger.

S54 has Nasty harmonics and having SMF is only making the gear
lash chatter for the worst transferring the vibrations to the crankshaft.

At hi engine speed the gear box lash gets much less because all is
under load but still the lash goes thru harmonics in different loads
of rpms

I see not much gains for having SMF vs DMF I have installed a single
mass on S54 cars and its just nasty resonances and vibration at low
engine speed when on low gear. Yes with SMF it will rev little just little
better but the gains are neglected....


One may get clever by reducing machining the dual DMF but the issue
is that DMF can not be Balanced.

I see nothing wrong with brand new DMF.

Regards,
Anri

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Could you elaborate? Most if not all the aluminium options use replaceable friction surfaces.

There is no engineering benefits to using aluminum, it’s purely cost cutting.

Here’s an excerpt from discussions with Ben @ TTV:

Aluminium is 1/3^rd the weight of steel but its also 1/3^rd the strength, as such, you need 3 times as much of it.

Having 2 different materials bolted together is not ideal when the parts warm up and start to expand as the expansion rates are different putting components under stress, this is more important when you consider the starter ring gear is steel. Failure here could be catastrophic.

Motorsport teams will not use aluminium flywheels due to their inherent reliability risks, the steel used for the friction faces tend to be of lower quality and wear out quickly when used with modern drivetrain friction materials.

[Slonik]

i had smf on my m3 with no chatter
and yes, i'm on dct now, also with smf, with almost to none chatter (they is no way to get "sprung hub" clutch on dct).

by the way, we have made about 1000 of aluminum flywheels already (mostly for VAGs), and all works great ;D